Igtropin (Long 3 IGF-1) ?'s

[atomicone]

I just started (yesterday) my first cycle using Long 3 IGF-1. I'm planning on doing two 4 week cycles at 40mcgs 2X daily along with 1.67IU of Jintropin 2X daily, 400mg of Test Cypionate, and 400mg Boldenone. Has anybody out there had good results from using Long 3 IGF-1? From What I've read is it literally has the ability to cause hyperplasia (actual splitting of muscle cells) therefore allowing you to go beyond your genetics. How true is this? Any info or comments would be appreciated.

[shmoo]

i heard the same but haven't experienced it myself. keep me posted on yur progress as i am planning a similiar cycle only that my dosages of test and eq will be a little higher and i will include tren also

[getbigwindsor]

Originally Posted by shmoo

i heard the same but haven't experienced it myself. keep me posted on yur progress as i am planning a similiar cycle only that my dosages of test and eq will be a little higher and i will include tren also

I'm also interested with this. It seams like IGF is the new magic drug.

[MaxRep]

Originally Posted by atomicone

From What I've read is it literally has the ability to cause hyperplasia (actual splitting of muscle cells) therefore allowing you to go beyond your genetics. How true is this? Any info or comments would be appreciated.

Actually IGF-1 has been around for a while now. It was originally developed by Gropep in Australia in about 1993. Elite level BB's were using it by the late 90's.

Atomic, I'm not sure where you've been doing your reading... But I don't see anything in the scientific studies showing actual hyperplasia in human muscle cells with IGF-1 LR3.

What does appear to be occuring is hypertrophy of existing muscle cells and more importantly, recruitment of additional satellite muscle cells which can mature into full sized muscle cells. These cells are normally activated only when existing muscle cells die or when stresses are such that they are needed. The additional IGF-1 appears to activate them before they would naturally be activated.

See the following study, which was published just last month, regarding satellite cell activation and muscle hypertrophy due to IGF-1.

MaxRep

__________________________________________________ _____________

1: Exp Cell Res. 2004 Sep 10;299(1):148-58. Related Articles, Links


IGF-1 induces human myotube hypertrophy by increasing cell recruitment.

Jacquemin V, Furling D, Bigot A, Butler-Browne GS, Mouly V.

CNRS UMR 7000 Cytosquelette et Developpement, Paris, France.

Insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) has been shown in rodents (i) in vivo to induce muscle fiber hypertrophy and to prevent muscle mass decline with age and (ii) in vitro to enhance the proliferative life span of myoblasts and to induce myotube hypertrophy.

In this study, performed on human primary cultures, we have shown that IGF-1 has very little effect on the proliferative life span of human myoblasts but does delay replicative senescence. IGF-1 also induces hypertrophy of human myotubes in vitro, as characterized by an increase in the mean number of nuclei per myotube, an increase in the fusion index, and an increase in myosin heavy chain (MyHC) content. In addition, muscle hypertrophy can be triggered in the absence of proliferation by recruiting more mononucleated cells.

We propose that IGF-1-induced hypertrophy can involve the recruitment of reserve cells in human skeletal muscle.

PMID: 15302582 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[getbigwindsor]

That's seems to be a little scary. What happens later in life when your body should be recruiting those satalite cells?

[atomicone]

FYI, you can get a two cycle supply including shipping from xxxxxxxx for $1300 which includes insurance. This is now the end of my second day and I've jumped the dose to 50mcg 2X daily (since the vials are 100mcg). I've already noticed a huge increase in appetite. I have also read that Long 3 Igf-1 suppresses myostatin to a fairly large degree.

Please refrain from doing any advertising for your supplier outside the classifieds.
Thank you,
MaxRep

[atomicone]

Originally Posted by MaxRep

Actually IGF-1 has been around for a while now. It was originally developed by Gropep in Australia in about 1993. Elite level BB's were using it by the late 90's.

Atomic, I'm not sure where you've been doing your reading... But I don't see anything in the scientific studies showing actual hyperplasia in human muscle cells with IGF-1 LR3.

What does appear to be occuring is hypertrophy of existing muscle cells and more importantly, recruitment of additional satellite muscle cells which can mature into full sized muscle cells. These cells are normally activated only when existing muscle cells die or when stresses are such that they are needed. The additional IGF-1 appears to activate them before they would naturally be activated.

See the following study, which was published just last month, regarding satellite cell activation and muscle hypertrophy due to IGF-1.

MaxRep

__________________________________________________ _____________

1: Exp Cell Res. 2004 Sep 10;299(1):148-58. Related Articles, Links


IGF-1 induces human myotube hypertrophy by increasing cell recruitment.

Jacquemin V, Furling D, Bigot A, Butler-Browne GS, Mouly V.

CNRS UMR 7000 Cytosquelette et Developpement, Paris, France.

Insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) has been shown in rodents (i) in vivo to induce muscle fiber hypertrophy and to prevent muscle mass decline with age and (ii) in vitro to enhance the proliferative life span of myoblasts and to induce myotube hypertrophy.

In this study, performed on human primary cultures, we have shown that IGF-1 has very little effect on the proliferative life span of human myoblasts but does delay replicative senescence. IGF-1 also induces hypertrophy of human myotubes in vitro, as characterized by an increase in the mean number of nuclei per myotube, an increase in the fusion index, and an increase in myosin heavy chain (MyHC) content. In addition, muscle hypertrophy can be triggered in the absence of proliferation by recruiting more mononucleated cells.

We propose that IGF-1-induced hypertrophy can involve the recruitment of reserve cells in human skeletal muscle.

PMID: 15302582 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Got the info off several reliable websites and that's exactly what the insert that is included with Igtropin by GenLei states (Also some of Eli Lilly's studies on regular IGF-1 in rats produced this effect). Doesn't mean it true though, but the stuff defintely seems exciting if used right. I'll let you know in 4-6 weeks.

[MaxRep]

Originally Posted by atomicone

Got the info off several reliable websites and that's exactly what the insert that is included with Igtropin by GenLei states (Also some of Eli Lilly's studies on regular IGF-1 in rats produced this effect). Doesn't mean it true though, but the stuff defintely seems exciting if used right. I'll let you know in 4-6 weeks.

Atomic, I hope you're kidding because if you're getting your info on something like hyperplasia anywhere other than from scientific studies, then I have to question your judgment because you're supposedly "reliable" info is worth zilch.

I'm sure you realize that for something of this nature, observation and anectdotal evidence counts for nothing. It takes scientific study to determine if hyperplasia is happening and I don't believe there's any such study which conclusively shows that to be occuring in humans.

As far as the literature from your China supplier, that's nothing more than hype sold to clients who want to believe in magic.

As far as IGF-1LR3 seeming "exciting if used right"... this is an old topic. It works for some, doesn't work for others... For the majority of people on this board who are still making gains off AAS alone, it's too expensive and unnecessary. You're talking about something that costs $650 for a cycle and most people here don't spend that much for a full blown AAS cycle that they'll make great gains off of. The IGF-1 can't even be used alone, unless you want minimal gains, so you're talking about a steroid cycle plus $650 for an IGF cycle and there are a lot of people for whom IGF-1 does nothing. I've used it myself several times. For the minor benefit, IMO, it's not worth it. And heaven help the poor fool who takes it without knowing they're in the early stages of cancer or have a small tumor they didn't know about... size them up for a coffin right now.

Also, I already asked you once before in your other thread to refrain from posting suppliers info anywhere other than in the classifieds. I don't usually ask people twice.

Regards,
MaxRep

[MASSIVE1000]

I just started week # 3 and have gained a total of 10lbs so far...as Maxrep stated...not everyone will respond to IGF...also, any bros interested in it NEED to do their research on the side effects...especially concerning cancer.

[MaxRep]

OK, where are the scientific studies? All you've done is post what someone thinks with zero science to back it up.

Please post the study because I don't have time to go to someone else's board and dig through 50 threads looking for that. When I want to find a study, I'll go to the national library of medicine or one of the scientific journals. Not some board with a bunch of people posting their opinions.

I look forward to reading the published, scientific study you'll post showing hyperplasia in human muscle cells. And I say this sincerely because I'm not aware of any and if there are such studies, I'm very interested in reading them.

Best regards,
MaxRep

[MASSIVE1000]

Originally Posted by MaxRep

OK, where are the scientific studies? All you've done is post what someone thinks with zero science to back it up.

Please post the study because I don't have time to go to someone else's board and dig through 50 threads looking for that. When I want to find a study, I'll go to the national library of medicine or one of the scientific journals. Not some board with a bunch of people posting their opinions.

I look forward to reading the published, scientific study you'll post showing hyperplasia in human muscle cells. And I say this sincerely because I'm not aware of any and if there are such studies, I'm very interested in reading them.

Best regards,
MaxRep

Let me do some research bro....I have read it many times that it causes hyperplasia, however cant remember if they are actual studies...let me see what I can come up with.

[OCDTRAIN]

He is right that is a great site and yet expensive it is a great product for the more advanced BBer..I will agree you can get alot of gear with what you spend on IGF but if you are at a higher level this canbe that push you need to keep going..
It is only in recent years we have seen the monsters hit the stage this has alot to do with HGH/IGF/Insulin combos that are turning great BBers in to freaks..
If you can get receptor-grade that is preffered since it is pure 99%..Media-grade does work but it is 72% pure and needs to be mixed with a BA soulution to lower the chance of infection..Plus you can only use media-grade for 4 weeks before you build up antibodies..This is not the case with receptor-grade..I personally do not like the gen sci mainly b/c they will not say what grade it is..They call it injection grade, lol it is obvious it is media-grade..they say to mix and use within 24-48hrs this is so enough bacteria doesn't grow in time to cause a problem..

[MaxRep]

Massive,
Something else that applies to everyone which I thought was already well known, it's in the rules in the sticky above, please feel free to add to discussions here with information... but do not post links to other boards.

The link you posted requires a person to sign up as a member just to view a thread. Admin here views this type of thing as an underhanded way to send traffic from here to another board and does not appreciate that. Most other boards I'm aware of also prohibit this. I think a link on many other boards, here to Meso, would get the poster an automatic ban.

Thank you,
MaxRep

[MaxRep]

Massive,
Hopefully you'll come up with a much better study. First, that one's on sheep, second, they don't say what the dosage is, third, it's referring to the heart only and fourth, they say it's just a theory, that hyperplasia is occuring.

There's no way that can be applied to human, voluntary muscle cells as evidence hyperplasia occurs.

Please dig up some more that are more applicable.

MaxRep

[MASSIVE1000]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE1000

Bro, as far as humans go, they are still researching....most studies are performed on animals first...here is a quite lengthy STUDY on igf and cell proliferation and division...www.jbc.org/cgi/reprint/275/46/35942.pdf
Also they are researching this stuff for burn victims because of igf's ability to cause CELL DIVISION...I will try to find that study for you too.

Of course again this is on rats this time...I will try to find the human studies on burn victims.