Injecting HCG?

[kaly50]

i have heard some people say to inject HCG intramuscularly and some say subcutaneously.......which one is it?

[jasthace]

Either way

[hackskii]

But Sub-Q is soo much easier.

[kaly50]

can injecting sub-q ever result in an abscess like when inject AAS?

[solo47]

Originally Posted by kaly50

can injecting sub-q ever result in an abscess like when inject AAS?

Just think here; it shouldn't be hard.

Anything that penetrates your dermal barrier can cause an infection, & any infection can lead to the development of pus, which is, in essence, an abcess: a localized collection of pus in any part of the body. Slivers can lead to abcesses.

So, yup, you still need to be sterile on spike & skin.

Solo

[Bayou230]

Originally Posted by jasthace

Either way

I thought only certain types/brands of HCG could be injected SubQ and the majority had to be injected IM. Is that wrong?

[hackskii]

I remember on the readme it said IM but Sub-Q works just fine.
Every time I ever used HCG it was Sub-Q and it always works.

Sub-Q will be a bit slower delivery but that is cool and I actually like that better and it is way easier to shoot, measure.

[evangelionpunk]

both i do subq though

[alphaguy]

Interesting thread.
I have known people that took test, deca, winny, boldenone, and other AAS so I have an idea of what to expect, but no1 who took HGH. The cost is obviously much higher. I would be interested in hearing from people about their personal experiences. Considering the money they spent, was it all worth it? How long did you stay on it? What were the effects, positive ones of course as well as any sides.

[Conciliator]

Originally Posted by alphaguy

Interesting thread.
I have known people that took test, deca, winny, boldenone, and other AAS so I have an idea of what to expect, but no1 who took HGH. The cost is obviously much higher. I would be interested in hearing from people about their personal experiences. Considering the money they spent, was it all worth it? How long did you stay on it? What were the effects, positive ones of course as well as any sides.

I think you're mistaken. We're talking hCG, not HGH.

[alphaguy]

Damn, you are right Conciliator.
Should have posted this in the "is gh safe" thread.
My bad...

[solo47]

Originally Posted by hackskii

I remember on the readme it said IM but Sub-Q works just fine.
Every time I ever used HCG it was Sub-Q and it always works.

Sub-Q will be a bit slower delivery but that is cool and I actually like that better and it is way easier to shoot, measure.

I respectfully disagree, Hack. IM takes longer to act & lasts longer in effects, too. That's what I gather from instructions that say either do (a)intramuscular injections @ about 5000iu per week for two weeks (at the end of cycle), OR (b)sub-dermal injections @ about 500iu (or up to 1000iu) per day for 10 days.

This implies that sub-dermal injections come on faster but also that their effects don't remain active as long. I personally think this way is better since it has a strong effects that can't be ignored within a few days.

If I'm wrong, it won't be the first time.

Solo

[asih.net]

One should always inject hCG subcutaneously. The simplest reason is the comfort of the injection; less trauma to tissues; and decreased risk of infection. SC v IM are equally effective. As far as the kinetics of the injections one would expect them to be fairly similar. the reason why testosterone preparations last a longer time is due to the depot (oil) in which they are injected. hCG is soluble in water and will therefore be absorbed quickly. Other considerations are the weight of the individual. There are clinical indicators to monitor while taking hCG. If the hCG is being used for HPTA normalization a serum testosterone ashould be obtained while taking hCG and not after. this is critical and important for successful HPTA normalization.

Weissman, A., S. Lurie, et al. (1996). "Human chorionic gonadotropin: pharmacokinetics of subcutaneous administration." Gynecol Endocrinol 10(4): 273-6.
The objective of the present study was to evaluate the pharmacokinetics of human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) following different regimens of subcutaneous and intramuscular single-dose administration. Two hypogonadotropic hypogonadal volunteers received hCG injections without prior ovarian stimulation. The regimens included a single dose of 10,000 IU hCG either subcutaneously or intramuscularly, or 5000 IU hCG intramuscularly. Serum beta-hCG concentrations were measured periodically up to 13 days after hCG administration. Each of the three regimens exhibit a similar pharmacokinetic profile and the highest serum beta-hCG concentrations were achieved with a dose of 10,000 IU administered subcutaneously. Seven days after hCG administration beta-hCG was detectable only after subcutaneous or intramuscular administration of 10,000 IU, but not after a single intramuscular injection of 5000 IU. From the preliminary results of the study it is suggested that a single intramuscular dose of 5000 IU hCG might be sufficient to trigger ovulation, but for luteal-phase support a higher dose may be needed. Subcutaneous administration of hCG for the induction of ovulation or luteal-phase support in gonadotropin-induced cycles is feasible and might offer a better tolerance and cost-effectiveness of infertility treatments, leading to their further simplification.

Trinchard-Lugan, I., A. Khan, et al. (2002). "Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of recombinant human chorionic gonadotrophin in healthy male and female volunteers." Reprod Biomed Online 4(2): 106-15.
The pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of recombinant human chorionic gonadotrophin (rHCG) were investigated in three studies of healthy volunteers. After single intravenous doses of 25, 250 and 1000 microg, rHCG and urinary HCG (uHCG) showed linear pharmacokinetics described by a bi-exponential model, although the area under the curve (AUC) for uHCG was ~29% lower than for rHCG. After intramuscular or subcutaneous administration (absolute bioavailability, 40-50% for both), rHCG pharmacokinetics could be described by a first-order absorption, one-compartment model. During multiple subcutaneous dosing, the amount of HCG increased by approximately1.7-fold. A comparison of liquid and freeze-dried rHCG and freeze-dried uHCG showed pharmacokinetic bioequivalence. In down-regulated male subjects, single doses of 125 microg rHCG, given intravenously, intramuscularly or subcutaneously, produced comparable increases in serum testosterone, inhibin and 17beta-oestradiol, with little further increase during repeated subcutaneous administration (in female subjects, this produced a sustained comparable increase in serum androstenedione and testosterone concentrations). In conclusion, the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of rHCG are similar to those of uHCG and are not affected by the use of different formulations. In healthy subjects, rHCG produces pharmacodynamic responses consistent with HCG physiology and is suitable for use in the same clinical indications as uHCG. The secured source and high purity of rHCG may offer important advantages.

Burgues, S. and M. D. Calderon (1997). "Subcutaneous self-administration of highly purified follicle stimulating hormone and human chorionic gonadotrophin for the treatment of male hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. Spanish Collaborative Group on Male Hypogonadotropic Hypogonadism." Hum Reprod 12(5): 980-6.
The efficacy and safety of highly purified follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) associated with human chorionic gonadotrophin (HCG) was studied in 60 men with hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. Of these men, 16 suffered from Kallmann's syndrome, 19 from idiopathic hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism and 25 from hypopituitarism. Basal testosterone concentrations were found to be far below the normal range. At baseline, 26 patients were able to ejaculate and all of them showed azoospermia, while the remaining patients were aspermic. All patients self-administered s.c. injections of FSH (150 IU x three/week) and HCG (2500 IU x two/week) for at least 6 months and underwent periodic assessments of testicular function. Testosterone concentrations increased rapidly during treatment and all but one patient reached normal values. Testicular volume showed a sustained increase reaching almost 3-fold its baseline value. At the end of treatment, 48 patients (80.0%) had achieved a positive sperm count. The maximum sperm concentration during treatment was 24.5 +/- 8.1 x 10(6)/ml (mean +/- SEM). The median time to induce spermatogenesis was 5 months. Eleven patients reported adverse events, generally not related to treatment. Three patients experienced gynaecomastia. No local reactions at injection site were observed. In conclusion, the s.c. self-administration of highly purified FSH + HCG was well tolerated and effective in stimulating spermatogenesis and steroidogenesis in these patients.

Jones, T. H., J. F. Darne, et al. (1994). "Diurnal rhythm of testosterone induced by human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG) therapy in isolated hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism: a comparison between subcutaneous and intramuscular hCG administration." Eur J Endocrinol 131(2): 173-8.
When human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG) is used to stimulate testosterone synthesis and release in males with hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism, it is administered two or three times weekly by intramuscular injection. We have compared the pharmacokinetics of a twice weekly standard dose of hCG (5000 U) given for the first week by intramuscular injection and in the second week by self-administered subcutaneous injection. The patients studied had Kallmann's syndrome, isolated idiopathic hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism or post-traumatic isolated hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. Salivary testosterone was collected twice daily at 08.00 h and 20.00 h, and serum testosterone was collected after 0, 24 h, 72 h, 120 h and 168 h each week. The cumulated serum and salivary testosterone levels were comparable on both intramuscular and subcutaneous hCG. In normal males there is diurnal variation in testosterone, with peak serum levels in the morning falling to a nadir in the evening. The exact nature and controlling factors of this circadian rhythm have not been established. In four of the subjects, the twice weekly hCG injections, either subcutaneous or intramuscular, produced a regular testosterone diurnal rhythm. The other four patients had fluctuations in testosterone but with no strict diurnal pattern. This study provides evidence that the luteinizing hormone-like action of hCG is necessary to prime the circadian rhythm but only a single bolus of hCG is sufficient to induce the rhythm in the absence of endogenous gonadotrophin production. In conclusion, self-administered subcutaneous hCG is safe and produces comparable levels of serum and salivary testosterone to that administered by the intramuscular route. Moreover, it was very well accepted by the patients and was preferred to conventional treatments. Human hCG in some patients with hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism produces normal physiological changes in daily testosterone levels.

Saal, W., H. J. Glowania, et al. (1991). "Pharmacodynamics and pharmacokinetics after subcutaneous and intramuscular injection of human chorionic gonadotropin." Fertil Steril 56(2): 225-9.
OBJECTIVE: The pharmacokinetics and efficiency of human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) after subcutaneous (SC) injection was to clarify in comparison with the intramuscular (IM) mode of administration. DESIGN: In a prospective study, the pharmacokinetics of hCG and the response of serum testosterone (T), luteinizing hormone (LH), and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) after an IM and SC injection of 5,000 IU hCG were evaluated up to 144 hours in two randomized groups. SETTING: The study was carried out in a clinical dermatology department providing tertiary care. PARTICIPANTS: Twenty-four healthy male volunteers with a mean age of 22.7 +/- 4.3 years were divided into two groups. INTERVENTIONS: Human chorionic gonadotropin (5,000 IU) was injected IM or SC. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE: Serum concentration of /b-hCG, T, LH, and FSH were evaluated after IM and SC administration of hCG. Differences between the two groups were determined by t-test. RESULTS: Compared with IM administration of hCG, peak serum drug concentration was significantly delayed (P = 0.01) and serum half-life was prolonged (P = 0.01) after SC injection; however, T, LH, and FSH responses were identical. CONCLUSIONS: Subcutaneous application of 5,000 IU hCG is as effective as IM administration in terms of steroidogenesis.

Hope this helps.

Mike

[asih.net]

Apologize.

Just wanted to add a little pnemonic that will help in determining the eventual disposition of a drug. Remember the word MADE. This is for all drugs, the letters stand for M - Metabolism; A - Absorption; D - Distribution; E - Excretion. They are not obviously in that order physiologically!

Peace.

Mike

[hackskii]

So your approach is to stay on the HCG till the blood levels tell you to get off and keep the nolvadex and clomid?

Is ther desintization after around 3 weeks of HCG?

What is the average time of recovery of the HPTA using the HCG and clomid/nolvadex approach?

The size of the balls are no indication of recovery?

Is labido minimised during the use of nolvadex or clomid therapy?

Sorry for all the Q's