Interesting article in MMag on anti estrogens

[Arnold73]

It was by Nelson Montana and it talked about how guys in the 70s and such had no gyno and didnt use antiestrogens, especially clomid which showed 1 out of 4 BBs respond badly to it and it doesnt work well. what do you all think about that?
It also mentioned using calcium glucarate as an anti E. im one of those guys who agrees with Nelson when he talks about todays guys using way too much gear and that is why alot guys have to use anti E's so they dont get gyno. and i totally agree on his views which is the same as William Llewelyns about estrogen being a vital part of the muscle buildup process and to not use anti E's unless they are absolutely totally necessary.
Maybe thats why guys like Schwarzenegger, Ferrigno, Columbu used plenty of Dianabol and were massive without the bad side effects. Could the Ciba Dianabol back then be much better than todays stuff though. Im pretty sure MaxRep who was around these guys back then talked about that somewhere and said the 5mg blue little pills were different and seemed to work better.
You think they will ever manufacture DBal in the U.S. again legally. I mean they make Anadrol50 which is much stronger and toxic then Dbal, but prescribe it to people. Wouldnt you think the medical community would find that Dbal is much safer at lower doses for people who need it for wasting diseases and such. sorry to jump around here but it all makes me wonder what is being preached today may be wrong, at least in some ways depending on your goals.

[Superlopez]

Definitly makes you think.

[freedomfighter]

We can only deal with what is present. Dwelling on the past is counterproductive. BTW anadrol is used to treat anemia. It increases red blood cell production. Dbol is not as effective in this. But you're argument is valid in this case also. Where are the negative effects from anadrol. For myself any amount of Test above what I naturally produce induces gyno. The one time I tried Anadrol(a source gave me 50 50mg tabs because he was late with my order) I got itchy nips the first day. Generalizations don't work. Each individual has to find out for himself how his body is going to react. I know guys that do a gram or more a week of Test without anti-e's and not experience any symptoms. I wrote that for an old friend JD. He's one of the lucky one's whose body apparently produces very little aromatase.

Freedomfighter

[Arnold73]

Originally Posted by freedomfighter

We can only deal with what is present. Dwelling on the past is counterproductive. BTW anadrol is used to treat anemia. It increases red blood cell production. Dbol is not as effective in this. But you're argument is valid in this case also. Where are the negative effects from anadrol. For myself any amount of Test above what I naturally produce induces gyno. The one time I tried Anadrol(a source gave me 50 50mg tabs because he was late with my order) I got itchy nips the first day. Generalizations don't work. Each individual has to find out for himself how his body is going to react. I know guys that do a gram or more a week of Test without anti-e's and not experience any symptoms. I wrote that for an old friend JD. He's one of the lucky one's whose body apparently produces very little aromatase.

Freedomfighter

I understand what your saying about individual reactions Freedomfighter. There was plenty of guys using the same stuff as Arnold but didnt look anything like him.
And i dont really dwell, well maybe a little bro. hey what can i say, Arnies physique in his prime is unmatched, and he loved Dianabol. How much he took I dont think anyone will ever know. but he sure didnt have any side effects in my opinion.
Your friends are lucky like Arnold to not get any side effects. I guess its a genetic thing.

[lestatgear]

Guys are using a lot more gear these days, which I'm sure accounts for higher instances of gyno. However, I have seen pixs and film before of Franco Columbo where he definitely had some gyno. It may not have been as prevelent, but I think some of the guys did suffer from minor cases in the 70's.

[reveremuscle]

What's everyone's best guess as to what the dosages where back then. I say they never took over 40mg of dbol.

[roadkill]

and the guys in my area were looking good, thick and strong. the standard cycle for most was 200 mgs per week of deca and 3 ciba dbol per day. and yes the gear was definatley WAY more powerful then.

[Arnold73]

Originally Posted by Bigkarch

did you know arnold Schwarzenegger is having liver problems.....huh....

Really, I did not know that Bigkarch. Where did you hear that from. I know Arnold ate followed a high meat, high fat diet in his day, and im sure the many years of dbal use didnt help. Well, hopefully with all his money he fixes his liver if possible. can you buy a new liver or is that just kidneys?

[Arnold73]

Originally Posted by lestatgear

Guys are using a lot more gear these days, which I'm sure accounts for higher instances of gyno. However, I have seen pixs and film before of Franco Columbo where he definitely had some gyno. It may not have been as prevelent, but I think some of the guys did suffer from minor cases in the 70's.

Your probaly right lestatgear, im sure some had, but not near as today as I think we can both agree. I think that was Franco when he was competing in the 80s, he probaly started following the 80 stacks of higher testosterone intake at that point, to compete at the Olympia.

[freedomfighter]

Originally Posted by ARNOLD73

can you buy a new liver or is that just kidneys?

Liver transplants are done. The waiting list for one is very long. Walter Payton died waiting for one while David Crosby got one. What a world.