Steroid Forum: This is a discussion on Looking for feedback on my stack, PCL within the Anabolic Steroids forums, part of the extensive steroid information at MESO-Rx; First some background:
I am 26, 5'10, 177lbs, 13% bodyfat, lifting very seriously for two years. I cycled once before ...
I am 26, 5'10, 177lbs, 13% bodyfat, lifting very seriously for two years. I cycled once before (test prop) but did absolutely no research. I just did what my friend told me to do. Luckily everything went fine. This time, however, I have been dedicated to researching what I'm doing and I'm looking for as much feedback as possible from the generous people here on this board.
My cycle:
Test E: 400-500mg/week (can't decide!), one shot a week EQ: 300-400mg/week (again can't decide), split up into 2 shots a week (Monday/Thursday)
Dbol: 25mgs/day for 4 weeks to start
Winstrol: 50mgs/day for the last 4 weeks
Rounded out with Arimidex to cut water ret. and of course Clomid for PCT
All Geneza brand.
My questions generally revolve around PCT and injections.
- Any thoughts on Clomid's visual sides? I remember reading that Nolvadex had an equal if not greater threat of visual sides. Any truth to this? I've read the Clomid vs Nolvadex debate but this wasn't mentioned.
- What about getting sick when starting EQ? There doesn't seem to be much info on this. It seems I may just have to endure it if I get it.
- On my first cycle I used the smallest needle possible (yes, I was scared of needles) and injected into the thigh with no problems/pain. But based on what I've read recently, I'm thinking of going with a larger needle (22, 23???) and injecting into the glutes primarily, and then rotating to the thigh. I've read Fraggles thread on injection pain, but some of that stuff seems over my head.
As I said, I'm relatively informed, but no expert by any means. Any feedback is GREATLY appreciated!
I must be lucky but I have never had noticable side effects from clomid or nolva. In terms of pin gauge, if you are injecting into glutes, a 21 will do the job. When you use finer gauges, you will spend an extended amount of time just trying to force the contents in. Not easy if you are injecting into your glute. A mate of mine has even used insulin needles on oil based compounds. I asked how many hours he spend trying to draw and inject.. He just laughed..
I inject in the glutes and generally dont have any pain problems. Except when I use cyp. My body just doesnt agree with that stuff. If you havent already, have a squiz at http://spotinjections.com/.
I am 26, 5'10, 177lbs, 13% bodyfat, lifting very seriously for two years. I cycled once before (test prop) but did absolutely no research. I just did what my friend told me to do. Luckily everything went fine. This time, however, I have been dedicated to researching what I'm doing and I'm looking for as much feedback as possible from the generous people here on this board.
My cycle:
Test E: 400-500mg/week (can't decide!), one shot a week EQ: 300-400mg/week (again can't decide), split up into 2 shots a week (Monday/Thursday)
Dbol: 25mgs/day for 4 weeks to start
Winstrol: 50mgs/day for the last 4 weeks
Rounded out with Arimidex to cut water ret. and of course Clomid for PCT
All Geneza brand.
My questions generally revolve around PCT and injections.
- Any thoughts on Clomid's visual sides? I remember reading that Nolvadex had an equal if not greater threat of visual sides. Any truth to this? I've read the Clomid vs Nolvadex debate but this wasn't mentioned.
- What about getting sick when starting EQ? There doesn't seem to be much info on this. It seems I may just have to endure it if I get it.
- On my first cycle I used the smallest needle possible (yes, I was scared of needles) and injected into the thigh with no problems/pain. But based on what I've read recently, I'm thinking of going with a larger needle (22, 23???) and injecting into the glutes primarily, and then rotating to the thigh. I've read Fraggles thread on injection pain, but some of that stuff seems over my head.
As I said, I'm relatively informed, but no expert by any means. Any feedback is GREATLY appreciated!
I would do 600mg of EQ, and 500 of Test E. Reason is EQ comes in 300mg/mL mostly, so you could take 1cc of EQ and .5 of Test twice a week. Plus people seem to get better results from EQ at 600mg than 400. If you could afford it I would also swap out the Dbol for 40mg of Anavar ED the first 4 and last 4 weeks of the cycle. 16 weeks minimum, 21or more if you're me. :P This cycle will keep you lean, you can maximize its results by watching what you put in your face.
I was on a pretty harsh cycle and 20mg of Nolva is working fine, granted I took a lot of hCG. You can take 100mg of Clomid for 4 weeks, along with 40mg of Nolva, the next 2 weeks run just 20mg Nolva, then the last 2 weeks 10mg Nolva. Most important part of all of this is that your take hCG the ENTIRE cycle and even take a little more the week after your last injection. This will wake up your HPTA, and the drugs will just help your body return to homeostasis without having to deal with all the conversion of hormones and suppression.
I have had no sides.
EQ, sick?? Some people get anxiety at high doses and even some lethargy.. I wouldn't worry about it at 300-600mg.
23 guage, 1.5", 3cc syringes is what you'll need for the gear, and insulin needles for the hCG.
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I would do 600mg of EQ, and 500 of Test E. Reason is EQ comes in 300mg/mL mostly, so you could take 1cc of EQ and .5 of Test twice a week. Plus people seem to get better results from EQ at 600mg than 400. If you could afford it I would also swap out the Dbol for 40mg of Anavar ED the first 4 and last 4 weeks of the cycle. 16 weeks minimum, 21or more if you're me. :P This cycle will keep you lean, you can maximize its results by watching what you put in your face.
I was on a pretty harsh cycle and 20mg of Nolva is working fine, granted I took a lot of hCG. You can take 100mg of Clomid for 4 weeks, along with 40mg of Nolva, the next 2 weeks run just 20mg Nolva, then the last 2 weeks 10mg Nolva. Most important part of all of this is that your take hCG the ENTIRE cycle and even take a little more the week after your last injection. This will wake up your HPTA, and the drugs will just help your body return to homeostasis without having to deal with all the conversion of hormones and suppression.
I have had no sides.
EQ, sick?? Some people get anxiety at high doses and even some lethargy.. I wouldn't worry about it at 300-600mg.
23 guage, 1.5", 3cc syringes is what you'll need for the gear, and insulin needles for the hCG.
Thank you all so much for the feedback. The EQ I'm getting comes in 200mg/ml, and it's somewhat expensive. So I think I'll stick with 400mg. Like I said I'm not exactly a beginner, but I'm also not comfortable with taking higher doses. I'll see how I respond on this cycle and then go from there. This will be a 10 week cycle for me.
Now I'm confused about hCG. I've read that I only need to take it as PCT, not DURING the cycle. I didn't order any because it seemed to me that hCG, Clomid, and Nolva all seemed to do the trick for PCT. And having all three simply wasn't necessary. Some people prefer one to the other, but it seemed to me like splitting hairs.....
Basically all the feedback I've gotten goes something like this: "Use Nolva or Clomid (or both if you like) you can throw in some hCG, but as long as you follow the Clomid therapy at the end of your cycle, you should be fine."
I'll definitely look into hCG some more. Thanks again!
Also, the sickness from EQ I'm referring to is having flu like symptoms when starting EQ. I've read that, being a veterinary steroid, some people get the "EQ fever."
overall not bad...as said above I would also up the eq...but thats up to you...I would take nolva and clomid together for pct...dont think you feel to many sides with a mile to average dose...I'd do the 500 mg ew with the test and take both the eq and test twice per week.....
Im not a fan of winny and not sure if you will feel or see anything from the winny in the last 4 weeks...but thats just MHO...
as far as the pins...23 g works for me..especially if your shooting up for a long time or frequently....
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Great stuff guys. Again I can't thank you all enough.
"Im not a fan of winny and not sure if you will feel or see anything from the winny in the last 4 weeks...but thats just MHO..."
Here's where I'm confused. The stack I'm going to use I got from steroid.com. It mentioned using Winstrol as a sub for Anavar simply because of the cost. I'll do the Anavar if it's that much more affective (and milder on the liver). But when I research it I come across two things:
1. Oxandrolone - this profile tells me it's a mild steroid that won't aromatize
2. Oxymetholone (Oxyplex) - this profile tells me it's one of the harsher orals out there and the chance for water retention is high.
Are these both Anavar? Are they just calling it by a different name?
Also, again, any more thoughts on hCG? Is it necessary for a stack like this when I'm already going to use Arimidex ED for the entire cycle, and clomid (+ possibly Nolva) for my PCT?
Also, what is a 23 g needle like. I'm not going to be staring at a badass shank or anything am I? Or is 23 basically par for the coarse?
Last edited by IAmTheWalrus; 01-21-2009 at 07:50 PM.
LOL. Sorry for the frequent posts, but I am starving for knowledge. Here's what I found about HCG:
The usual protocol is to inject 1500-3000 I.U. every 4'" or 5t" day, for a duration usually no longer than 2 or 3 weeks. If used for too long or at too high a dose, the drug may actually function to desensitize the Leydig's cells to luteinizing hormone, further hindering a return to homeostasis. Timing the initial dose is also very crucial. If your were coming off a cycle of Sustanon for example, testosterone levels in your blood will likely stay elevated for at least 3 to 4 weeks after your last injection. Taking HCG on the day of your last shot would therefore be useless. Instead one would want to calculate the last week in which androgen levels are likely to be above normal, and begin ancillary drug therapy at this point. In this case HCG would be started around the third or fourth week.
After research, this definitely seems cheap enough and important enough to be worth it. However, how would using this affect my clomid therapy?
I'm thinking: 1500 I.U. every 4th or 5th day for 2 weeks, 3 weeks after my last injection.
But do I start the Clomid during or after the HCG?????
listen to what the gents above are saying. They are right on.
First; no the two chemicals you came across are not the same. The first is the chemical name of Anavar while the second is the chem name of anadrol. VERY different compounds
Second; for what you want and your body type, switching out the winny for var would be much better choice for you.
Third; Up the dosages like said earlier and split both compounds into bi-weekly injections
Fourth; 23 gauge will do the trick and feels MUCH smaller than 21 gauge
Fifth; HCG should be used at 500ius ew during the cycle and then 500ius ed for ten days following you last injection and before you start your clomid(+nolva)
You dont want to use TOO much HCG at a time as your body gets used to it and the effects are not as pronounced. Second, HCG basically mimics LH in the body so it gets your "boys" going nicely, but it doesnt restart anything. Its used to jump start your PCT so your already a step ahead before starting clomid
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