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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2006, 01:56 AM
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Default My 1st Cycle

This will be what i consider my first real cycle i have been training naturally for the last 15 years consistantly. I did use winstrol 50mg ED for 8 weeks this past summer with some good results.
My stats are 32yrs old, 210lbs, 6ft tall 15%bf
I am looking to add some muscle while leaning out a bit.
My cycle is as follows:

week 1-20 3 grams tribulus daily
week 1-10 75mg test prop ED = 525mg/week
week 4-10 45mg masteron ED = 315mg/week
week 11-14 15mg prop & 15mg masteron mon,wed,fri = 90mg/w
week 15 12.5mg prop & 12.5mg masteron mon,wed,fri = 75mg/w
week 17 10mg prop & 10mg masteron mon,wed,fri = 60mg/w
week 18 7.5mg prop & 10mg masteron mon,wed,fri = 45mg/w
week 19 5mg prop & 5mg masteron mon,wed,fri = 30mg/w

gear on hand:
2 tubs of eurolabs test propionate 20ml @ 150mg/ml
1 tub eurolabs masteron 20ml @ 150mg/ml

I plan to pre load all my insulin syringes in advance for my taper, because I don't want to run short & it will be quite time consuming.

I tried to buy sterile filtered oil from london drugs pharmacy and they did not know what i was talking about.

Anyway if anyone has any input iI would love to hear it.
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Old 12-05-2006, 02:02 AM
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Default Re: My 1st Cycle

I really don't know where to start, but as I have stated probably 10 times in the last week, PLEASE TAKE 30-60min AND READ SOME OF THE STICKY'S REGUARDING 1ST CYCLES!!!

P.S. What's with the 20 weeks of Tribulus?

Holy shit Bro, Good Luck!!
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Old 12-05-2006, 10:24 AM
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Default Re: My 1st Cycle

10-12 weeks Test only cycle (250x2x1week)

Good Luck
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Old 12-05-2006, 12:08 PM
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Default Re: My 1st Cycle

Let me know how your plan to draw test prop or masteron into an insulin syringe works out for you.Forget the tapering plan you have designed..this will not let your natural test levels begin to come back.sounds like getting gear is no problem and test and mast is good but you need to redesign this cycle.dennis
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Old 12-05-2006, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: My 1st Cycle

Weeks 1 to 10 with prop is okay.Masteron is a bit of a waste of time at 15% bodyfat really.It don't come into its own until at a lower percentage.Also the last 10 weeks are pointless.You would be better of with Tren A instead at 75mg EOD instead of masteron.You have to decide on your priority,cutting or gaining?.To try and do both is not really ideal.You need to eat more to gain,less to cut.Which is it?.Also how much cardio do you plan on doing?.Many people try to cut and gain at the same time and they usually lose out both ways.Not as big or as cut as hoped.

www.muscletalk.co.uk

Last edited by terrorizer2 : 12-05-2006 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 12-06-2006, 01:11 AM
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Default Re: My 1st Cycle

Quote:
Originally Posted by barry morewood
This will be what i consider my first real cycle i have been training naturally for the last 15 years consistantly. I did use winstrol 50mg ED for 8 weeks this past summer with some good results.
My stats are 32yrs old, 210lbs, 6ft tall 15%bf
I am looking to add some muscle while leaning out a bit.
My cycle is as follows:

week 1-20 3 grams tribulus daily
week 1-10 75mg test prop ED = 525mg/week
week 4-10 45mg masteron ED = 315mg/week
week 11-14 15mg prop & 15mg masteron mon,wed,fri = 90mg/w
week 15 12.5mg prop & 12.5mg masteron mon,wed,fri = 75mg/w
week 17 10mg prop & 10mg masteron mon,wed,fri = 60mg/w
week 18 7.5mg prop & 10mg masteron mon,wed,fri = 45mg/w
week 19 5mg prop & 5mg masteron mon,wed,fri = 30mg/w

gear on hand:
2 tubs of eurolabs test propionate 20ml @ 150mg/ml
1 tub eurolabs masteron 20ml @ 150mg/ml

I plan to pre load all my insulin syringes in advance for my taper, because I don't want to run short & it will be quite time consuming.

I tried to buy sterile filtered oil from london drugs pharmacy and they did not know what i was talking about.

Anyway if anyone has any input iI would love to hear it.
week 1-8 Test Prop 150mg EOD

4 days after last shot start PCT.
Nolvadex 40/40/40/20


That is all you need
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Old 12-06-2006, 12:01 PM
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Default Re: My 1st Cycle

Good luck with your cycle, however you decide to run it, but I agree you should do more research and give your statistics when asking for cycle assistance.
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Old 12-07-2006, 12:58 AM
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Default Re: My 1st Cycle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selene
Good luck with your cycle, however you decide to run it, but I agree you should do more research and give your statistics when asking for cycle assistance.
This will be what i consider my first real cycle i have been training naturally for the last 15 years consistantly. I did use winstrol 50mg ED for 8 weeks this past summer with some good results.
My stats are 32yrs old, 210lbs, 6ft tall 15%bf

I have done lots of research on another site (CJM) i just thought I would post on this site to get more advice, anyone have anything useful to say?
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Old 12-07-2006, 02:50 AM
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Default Re: My 1st Cycle

I run the Masterone higher than the Test,to blast SHBG,it makes me feel better,more energy,lots of go.
Ed injections should be good,last time I run prop and masterone I run EOD,but will try ED next time.
What will your diet look like?
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Old 12-07-2006, 04:09 AM
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Default Re: My 1st Cycle

Quote:
Originally Posted by barry morewood
anyone have anything useful to say?
Why, have you not read the replys to your post already?

Archie
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Old 12-07-2006, 04:48 AM
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Default Re: My 1st Cycle

Quote:
Originally Posted by barry morewood
anyone have anything useful to say?
Yes, KISS......keep it simple stupid!

500mg/week for 10 weeks of some type of test, maybe a little dbol to jumpstart the cycle, and then some PCT. IMO, don't go any longer than 10 weeks unless you are making a living with your large muscles. The longer you go beyond 10 weeks, the harder it could be to recover your natural test levels.

And don't taper. Esterfied steroids are self tapering, all that shit you have at the end of your cycle will just keep you from recovering while not being enough to grow on so why bother?
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Old 12-07-2006, 07:49 AM
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Default Re: My 1st Cycle

Quote:
Originally Posted by barry morewood
I have done lots of research on another site (CJM) i just thought I would post on this site to get more advice, anyone have anything useful to say?
If you've already gotten advice on this cycle, why would you post it at another forum? The cycle is shit the way it is posted and you should have gotten the same advice where you posted the first time. Is that useful enough for you?

HDH
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Old 12-08-2006, 03:16 AM
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Default Re: My 1st Cycle

Originally Posted by barry morewood
anyone have anything useful to say?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archie
Why, have you not read the replys to your post already?

Archie
Barry's comment above is exactly why I said what I did in my first post. Someone who claims to have done a lot of research and then comes up with this type of 1st cycle scares me. Also, anybody who states "anyone has anything useful to say" after numerous bro's posted solid advice should just be ignored!

Note: Shit, even Foreman gave this guy good advice even though he was begging to be flamed (Ha Ha).
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Last edited by atomicone : 12-08-2006 at 03:20 AM.
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Old 12-09-2006, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: My 1st Cycle

Well first of all I want to apologise to all the members that have given me solid advise.

jasthace, a typical day of food would consist of:

45g protein shake with 15g glutamine frozen fruit (pineapple,mango,berries) bran buds yogurt & udo oil 7:30
30g protein bar & apple 10:00
1 can tuna sandwich, apple 12:00
30g protein bar 3:00
45g protein shake with 15g glutamine frozen fruit 5:00
workout 5:30-7:00
45g protein shake with 60g glutamine 7:15
fish (usually steelhead or sole) and steamed veggies 8:45
45g protein shake with 15g glutamine
approx: 3100 calories, 300g protein
This is my diet from mon- fri i have a fairly physical job and i train five days a week, sunday is my cheat day but i still try to keep the carbs and salt low.

mon: back
tues: chest
wed: arms
thurs: legs
fri: shoulders

From the responses I have gotten it seem like just about everyone is against the use of masteron in this cycle I would like to know why?
Also everyone seems to be against tapering, why?
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Old 12-10-2006, 09:14 AM
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Default Re: My 1st Cycle

Quote:
Originally Posted by barry morewood
anyone have anything useful to say?
I dont think you want advice on the subject. If you did, you would have listened to the majority of people who advised you to try a Test only cycle seeing how this was your first. Dont ask fuckin' questions that you arent willing to accept the answers to. These guys have done many cycles of AAS with great success. You have done 0. Listen to these guys and show a little more respect.
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Old 12-10-2006, 09:56 AM
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Default Re: My 1st Cycle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironhorse
I dont think you want advice on the subject. If you did, you would have listened to the majority of people who advised you to try a Test only cycle seeing how this was your first. Dont ask fuckin' questions that you arent willing to accept the answers to. These guys have done many cycles of AAS with great success. You have done 0. Listen to these guys and show a little more respect.
If he would just sacrifice ten minutes of his life and read the sticky's, he wouldn't need to ask so many questions. It's obvious someone was confused him on how to put together an effective cycle.
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: My 1st Cycle

dennis i will be using a tuberculin syringe with a 25ga pin and i will not be preloading my syringes (apparently that is a bad idea). atomiclone the tribulus is to keep some lutenizing hormone in my system (easier to get to boys started if they don't shrivel in the first place) anyway would anyone care to tell me why masteron/tapering are such a bad idea? any input would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 12-14-2006, 02:12 AM
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Default Re: My 1st Cycle

Quote:
Originally Posted by barry morewood
anyway would anyone care to tell me why masteron/tapering are such a bad idea? any input would be greatly appreciated.
We could but then you could also take some initiative and do some real research on your own. Doing some reading through some of the many scientific studies on this would give you some basic understanding of androgen receptors and how steroids work. They you would see why tapering went out about 15 years ago and why none with any real understanding taper. Newbies and people who don't know what they're doing, think it makes common sense to taper but the concept has no scientific validity.

Masteron is simply a methylated form of DHT. In an already lean physique, it can create a harder appearance. It has virtually no anabolic properties being strictly an androgen and really has limited benefit in your stack. To include it as an assist in burning fat doesn't make sense as both thyroid (T3 ) and clenbuterol or even an ECA stack will burn fat better. Also keep in mind androgens like DHT are what's responsible for acne, prostate hypertrophy and hair loss.

Best regards,
MaxRep
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Old 12-14-2006, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: My 1st Cycle

The following was cut from another website it was written buy a guy that has given me alot of solid advice



Now to the research supporting using testosterone to taper off with:

Studies of using testosterone for a male contraceptive have shown that it does not cause azoospermia in all men and definitely not at lower dosages (below 100mg test E per week) (Masumoto, 1990) (Armory, et al., 2001). That is the reason test E has never been used for a contraceptive. The fact is that even while you are on cycle your body is still active to a certain degree secreting LH. Depending on what steroid(s) you are using i.e. the degree of androgenicity/ how strongly a steroid binds to the AR and the ease in which a compound is aromatised will govern to what degree your hpta is still active (Winters,et al., 1979).
Studies have actually proved this, where using 50mg of test enanthate on a weekly basis in normal men only lowered FSH and LH secretion by 50% when compared to the placebo group, and larger doses of 100mg and 300mg per week though found to be suppressive, were equally inconsistent in causing azoospermia (Masumoto, 1990) (Armory, et al., 2001). Doses of 25mg of testosterone enanthate had no effect on FSH or LH levels or sperm production compared with placebo (Masumoto, 1990).

A good example of this that many of you have probably found is if you are on cycle using lighter compounds such as Primo, Anavar, smaller amounts of Test, Equipoise, Winstrol, Tbol, Dbol, e.t.c. your testicles may not be in a fully atrophied state, however, if you switch your drugs to nandrolone, or trenbolone (which bind strongly to the AR), you will see further shrinkage in the testes. This anecdotal evidence clearly backs the above findings: Some steroids are more suppressive and cause greater shutdown! That of course is why I recommend waiting six weeks at a static 100mg of test E per week, to clear these steroids and their derivatives from your body before gradually decreasing the testosterone dose.


Further, there is evidence to show that using an anti-E concurrently with 100 mg of test E per week, so that E is prevented from binding with the receptors in the Hypothalamus prevents any shutdown of sperm production at all (Naftolin, et al., 1973)(Winters, et al., 1979). Highly anabolic agents such as halo, e.t.c at these low doses where shown to do similarly without even the use of an anti E, as these drugs do not aromatize (Winters, et al., 1979).

So, if you want to regain testicular size during a cycle, simply plan in your cycle to remove the highly androgenic compounds from your body (i.e. compounds that aromatise well and bind well to the AR), switching to compounds that have a higher anabolic ratio and concurrently using clomid, and you will ultimately improve the testicular size.

Absolutely no HCG is needed to accomplish this!

So anyways to wrap up, as I said before, the hpta is not fully suppressed when using testosterone in weekly doses below 100 mg of Enathate per week, if used concurrently with an anti E. The goal is to keep estrogen in physiologically normal, or slightly lower than normal levels, or else use clomid or nolva, which antagonize the ER. By doing this you can actually stave off 100% of hpta suppression, while still using 100 mg of test Enathate a week according to the literature.

If you wait the six week static waiting period, using 100mg of Test enathate per week while allowing other non testosterone compounds you may have used during your cycle to clear- (which I might add is like a natural taper - allowing your body to slowly come down from being on say greater than 1 gram of AAS per week) and then you begin to taper your dose from 100 mg per week using an anti E concurrently to ensure the hpta is capable of being active....

Each week as you continue to taper down your dose of test, the amount of FSH/LH secreted in your pituitary will increase, and the amount of natural test will increase as well. As LH increases, Sperm production increases, which increases the metabolic demands of the testes, and blood flow then dramatically increases to the area in response to metabolic demands causing hypertrophy - and usually some discomfort - actually some have had to use ice to the area to relieve the discomfort!

Tapering off your anti-E:
As you get down to the 50-25mg per week range you should be tapering off the anti-E as it will no longer be needed to keep your hpta active according to the literature. This is necessary to do on another front, as you need to up-regulate the ER so that it isn't super sensitive to small amounts of estrogen when you finally go off causing late-onset gyno, and even complete shut down... Chronic use of anti-E's causes decreases in estrogen exposure, and just like any drug, if you don't use it for a while, your body becomes more sensitive to it's effects. This means you need to slowly reacclimatize your ER to normal amounts of estrogen aromatisation. You accomplish this by tapering your anti-E so that you should be completely off it by the week you are using only 25mg, which research shows causes absolutely no hpta suppression whatsoever.

So anyways, by the end of the taper you can see now how the testes will have had plenty of time to increase in size. If you didn't use hcg, you can also see how the testes would have been almost hyper-responsive to your own natural LH production when it actually 'kicked into gear'.

And of course the six week waiting period on 100mg of test E is important, as it doesn't matter what pct method you use, if you still have levels of AAS in your system and their by-products, it doesn't matter what you do, you can't recover yet until they are cleared.

So basically the taper does the following:

-It gives your body time to adjust from being exposed to a lot of hormones to being just on normal physiological amounts vs the cold turkey approach

-It allows non-testosterone AAS to clear your body, while you still maintain your size and your libido and workout intensity doesn't have to change

-It allows 'lag-time', for the testes to respond, and your body to adjust back to normal amounts of testosterone.

-At no time does the level of testosterone in your body ever fall bellow physiological norms.

-At no time should you expect to lose your libido

-Best of all you can count the entire taper period as being 'off steroids' as technically you are in the normal physiological range of blood testosterone levels for the entire time you are doing the six week taper. (not the six week waiting period).
Therefore you can return to another cycle in six-week time- and expect good gains.
.
References
Armory, J., Anawalt, B., Bremner, W., Matsumoto, A., (2001) Daily Testosterone and Gonadotropin Levels are Simmilar in Azoospermic and Nonazoospermic Normal Men Administered Weekly Testosterone: Implications for Male Contraceptive Development. Journal of Andrology, 22(6). 1053-1060

Matsumoto, A., (1990) Effects of chronic Testosterone Administration in Normal Men: Safety and Efficacy of High Dosage Testosterone and Parallel Dose-Dependant Suppression of Luteinizing Hormone, Follicle Stimulating Hormone, and Sperm Production*. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 70(1). 282-287

Naftolin, F., Judd, H., Yen, S., (1973) Pulsatile Patterns of Gonadotropins and Testosterone in Man: The Effects of Clomiphene With and Without Testosterone. Journal of Clincal Endocrinology and Metabolism, (36)1. 285-

Winters, S., Janick, J., Loriaux, L., Sherrins, J., (1979) Studies of Sex Steroids in the Feedback Control of Gonadotropin Concentrations in Men. II. Use of Estrogen Antagonist Clomiphene Citrate*. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 48(1). 222-234
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