My experience with Proviron

[jdemon519]

Since I was on for more than 5 months I am doing a long PCT that includes:
20mg Nolva/ED and Proviron 50-75mg/ED.Pluses:
sex drive throught the roof
increased ejaculate volume/thickness
hardness
still keeping lean at 9%bf
Minuses(not related to Proviron but simply because I am "off")
reduced vascularity
weight down about 4 lbs
strength is down somewhat..maybe 10-15%

Overall I give proviron 10 out of 10.Good shit!

I am using Schering Proviron and if you look at the classifieds section you can see who carries it.I bump him all the time.

[Hypertrophiac]

since proviron is basically DHT in a pill, are you seeing any DHT related side effects such as acne, oily skin, hairloss, or swollen prostate (difficulty urinating)?

also, i've heard proviron with bind to your SHBG, and free up alot of your bound testosterone. what do you think about this theory? do you feel generally "good" on proviron like theres alot of free test in your system, or do you just feel shitty like when you've come off cycle only more androgenic....kinda like you do on fina.

[MaxRep]

Originally Posted by jdemon519

Since I was on for more than 5 months I am doing a long PCT that includes:
20mg Nolva/ED and Proviron 50-75mg/ED.Pluses:
sex drive throught the roof
increased ejaculate volume/thickness
hardness
still keeping lean at 9%bf
Minuses(not related to Proviron but simply because I am "off")
reduced vascularity
weight down about 4 lbs
strength is down somewhat..maybe 10-15%

Overall I give proviron 10 out of 10.Good shit!

I am using Schering Proviron and if you look at the classifieds section you can see who carries it.I bump him all the time.

I'd like to be nicer but you are just too clueless man.

Your use of proviron during pct is one of the dumbest things a person can do. Proviron is very suppressive. However, as DHT, it basically fills Testosterone's role and will do all the things you're raving about... while keeping your HPT axis fully suppressed.

Just wait and see what happens 3-4 weeks after you stop the proviron.

MaxRep

[Chip Bronson]

lmao @ max... having a tough day big guy? btw, thanks for beating me to the punch on this one. you were probably a little nicer about than i would've been... lol....

[Southernjuice]

Originally Posted by MaxRep

I'd like to be nicer but you are just too clueless man.

Your use of proviron during pct is one of the dumbest things a person can do. Proviron is very suppressive. However, as DHT, it basically fills Testosterone's role and will do all the things you're raving about... while keeping your HPT axis fully suppressed.

Just wait and see what happens 3-4 weeks after you stop the proviron.

MaxRep

Yep beat me too....proviron suppresses...end of story.

[jdemon519]

I am not as clueless as you guys might think.There are studies that show that Proviron DOES NOT supress if taken under 100mg/ED.Of course I am only using this protocol for another month and then come off for about 6-8 weeks completely.If I am supressed then answer these:
How come my ejaculate volume is through the roof and dense? Remember I did not use any Clomid.
Why are my balls "back in action" and not shriveled up like while I was "on"?
If it releases your natural test then why is it supressive? I also read the studies that there's no rebound effect after discontinuation of Proviron use.

BTW, no significant increase in acne.

[Ace42]

bump for more information. this is an interesting topic and I hope you guys proceed leaving your pride at the door.

Ace.

[graybass]

I've always believed that Proviron is all androgenic and therefore will suppress HPTA. I'm not a expert but, Isn't true that, because Proviron binds with certain receptor sites, it also then prevents the conversion of test to est. (to some extent)
Therefore, it's a great aid for keeping estrogen driven water retention down.
But, Proviron should deffinetly be discontinued during PCT.

JMHO, graybass

[jdemon519]

I am certainly not advocating staying on Proviron the whole time and starting another cycle right away.But I am sure you guys are all familiar with the study done in the UK where most of the subjects did not show any supression during an administration of Proviron for the whole year.The dosages were 50-150mg/ED for a year.So what I am really looking for is someone who has actually tried the bridging protocol with Proviron, got burned after PCT and knows first hand how supressive or not supressive it is.Otherwise why not just do this:
20 weeks "on"
AFTER:
HCG
Nolva/Provorion
AFTER:
6-8 weeks "off"
Repeat

Here's a little background on me..31 yo, been training for 11 years and 9.5 of them natural.First cycle went great but I lost a lot due to a shitty diet while being "off".Stats starting with the first cycle

5'7, 190 lbs,14%bf

Stats ending:

197 lbs, 10% bf

"OFF" - balooned up to 210 at 17% bf(disgusting)

After second cycle:

202 lbs, 8% bf

I know this might not seem like a lot but keep in mind that I am only looking for solid muscle and not just weight.Anyone can bulk up from 200 to 230 but then it's time to shred and... On my next cycle I'm gonna try to go up to 212 without significant increase in bodyfat.So maybe 212 at 9-10%bf.

[jdemon519]

Varma TR, Patel RH.

Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.

PMID: 2892728 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

One more...
Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.

Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S.

We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure. All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone, estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased.



Mesterolone administration produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL.




There was, however, a reduction in the integrated and incremental TSH secretion after TRH.
Fluoxymesterone administration was accompanied by a reduction in thyroid binding globulin (with associated decreases in T3 and increases in T3 resin uptake). The free T4 index was unaltered, which implies that thyroid function was unchanged.



In addition, during fluoxymesterone administration, there was a reduction in testosterone, gonadotropins and LH response to LHRH.


Basal TSH did not vary, but there was a reduction in the peak and integrated TSH response to TRH. PRL levels were unaltered during fluoxymesterone treatment.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

[jdemon519]

I know one study is not enough but it's better than "it supresses your HPTA and that's all there's to it".

[elprimo]

My dad use it by prescription, now he's gone all week at the strippers club's..lol.......

[MaxRep]

Originally Posted by jdemon519

I know one study is not enough but it's better than "it supresses your HPTA and that's all there's to it".

J, you're right about that and I do apologize for coming across so harshly earlier. The study from the UK you posted is, if memory serves correctly, the one done back in about 1988 and wasn't done with any sort of control group, wasn't randomized and no placebo was used. Not a real good way to run a study, almost as though they had an agenda.

If you've studied this at length, then you know there are conflicting studies on this subject. You also know that studies where the men are already suppressed (as AAS using BB's would be at end of cycle) give different results than from men who are not already suppressed.

Given that circumstances can change effect, and studies sometimes provide conflicting results, I fall back on personal experience and observation. This is why I said to watch out for what happens about 3-4 weeks after you discontinue your pct with proviron.

The people I've seen do this (which is admittedly just a few that I can remember over the years) have tended to respond similar to those who go off cycle without using any pct. 3-4 weeks later, they have no desire to train or eat right and before you know it, they get soft and lose a lot of muscle. Hopefully that won't happen to you. Just remember what proviron is, what it does in the body, and what can happen if it's suddenly taken away without your natural Test fully back in production.

Good luck,
MaxRep

[jdemon519]

Originally Posted by MaxRep

J, you're right about that and I do apologize for coming across so harshly earlier. The study from the UK you posted is, if memory serves correctly, the one done back in about 1988 and wasn't done with any sort of control group, wasn't randomized and no placebo was used. Not a real good way to run a study, almost as though they had an agenda.

If you've studied this at length, then you know there are conflicting studies on this subject. You also know that studies where the men are already suppressed (as AAS using BB's would be at end of cycle) give different results than from men who are not already suppressed.

Given that circumstances can change effect, and studies sometimes provide conflicting results, I fall back on personal experience and observation. This is why I said to watch out for what happens about 3-4 weeks after you discontinue your pct with proviron.

The people I've seen do this (which is admittedly just a few that I can remember over the years) have tended to respond similar to those who go off cycle without using any pct. 3-4 weeks later, they have no desire to train or eat right and before you know it, they get soft and lose a lot of muscle. Hopefully that won't happen to you. Just remember what proviron is, what it does in the body, and what can happen if it's suddenly taken away without your natural Test fully back in production.

Good luck,
MaxRep

What would be the physical symptoms of natural test recovery? I have done my PCT prior(HCG).Like I have posted before, my balls are back to their normal size and ejaculate volume is through the roof.I am also using 20mg of Nolva with the Proviron.