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Old 02-07-2005, 11:57 PM
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Default need help to cut fat

hey guys i have been here a long time but dont post often.i need to cut fat i have clen,test prop,winny tabs(10mg).some eq and d-bol injectable.how would you put this together for a good cutter and would you add anything to it.i eat clean but have been bulking on and off for a few years now need to shed the outside layer.help a bro out.thanx
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Old 02-08-2005, 11:10 PM
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Default thanx bro

thanx bro for the response.my stats are 6'5" @ 310.guessing somewhere between 12-15%bf.im was thinking test to try and keep as much muscle as possible.i do have clen and am getting some t3.i heard winny can tighten you up as well.can you suggest a dosing program for me.i see you on here a lot and respect what you say.thanx in advance.
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Old 02-10-2005, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigkarch
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No aas to cut fat?...what about a prop win cycle with clen? ..that along with good diet and cardio...needless to say a good weight lifting program..I dont understand why no aas..please explain
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Old 02-11-2005, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigkarch
because his diet and training is not up to par and he does not know where to begin...there is no evidence that aas will burn fat.....if one has to ask that question, then aas is not the way to go...
I have seen in books, articles, ect.. that aas promotes fat loss..Is that false information? I do understand why u provided the advice u did but are u sure your information is correct?
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Old 02-11-2005, 09:29 AM
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Here are a couple articles that may be of help, not endorsing either one of them...note the author of both emphasize knowing how to train and diet.

Article 1

In the quest to get ones body to a physical zenith, two factors must be considered. The first is maintaining as much lean body mass (LBM) as possible while trying to drop to single digit body fat levels. To accomplish this the bodybuilder will drop his calories to low levels while at the same time employing adequate amounts of aerobics.
This in turn puts the body in a catabolic state, which is the process in which your body breaks down pre existing muscle tissue for a quick energy substrate. To fix this problem many who have already crossed over to the dark side will employ an Anabolic/Androgenic Steroid (AAS) regimen.
By doing this it will insure that the body is in an Anabolic State at all times and they will not risk catabolism.
When introducing AAS into a cutting cycle, dieting theories that once held true for the natural bodybuilder can be somewhat altered. Be it high carb, or low carb, your calories during cutting can be dropped to levels that once before would put you in a very catabolic state.
But now with the assistance of AAS your primary concern should be to keep your protein moderately high (1.5 per lb.) and total calories relatively low. The total calorie intake can be reduced greatly due to the fact that AAS has a strong muscle preserving effect on the body.
Because of this, calories could be kept at 10 to 12 X bodyweight. I don’t feel I have to get into dieting specifics due to the fact if you have the notion of adding AAS you should have your diet in order. If you don’t know how to diet, you should not be reading this article.
This may sound foreign to some because most people feel that steroids are most notably used for building muscle at a rapid pace. This is true, but steroids are probably the most powerful dieting aid around due to their profound anti-catabolic effects on the body.
Some users that don’t have to greatly restrict their calories to diet down to low body fat levels will experience a body “recomposition”. The scale will stay the same but they will be loosing body fat and gaining muscle tissue at the same time. Remember, it’s not “weight” the bodybuilder is trying to loose, it’s fat that you are looking to loose. So if the scale doesn’t change there is no reason to panic, the calipers are what actually count in the end.
Outside of contest dieting regimens water should not be a concern, this means that you should not limit long acting esters or drugs such as Testosterone or Boldenone. Contest dieting is a completely different process, employing very fast acting ester steroids to keep water retention to a minimum.
During a regular dieting cycle excess water weight can be keep to a minimum by using Anti-Estrogens. Water weight is not necessary on a cycle which is why a drug like Arimidex or Femara should be used at a reasonable dose through out and also after for recovery purposes.
These drugs will inhibit Estrogen conversion and keep you dry and sharp looking. Ever see a girl going through her “cycle”, they put on body fat due to high estrogen levels in the body. High estrogen levels will smooth out your physique quickly and leave you looking puffy, so invest in an estrogen inhibitor.
Another myth that I would like to dispel is that certain steroids have magical cutting qualities to them, most notably Winstrol and Trenbolone. Winstrol is an ester less anabolic, which makes the user not hold any water from the drug. The drug also makes the user look hard and dense, which is why many believe it has fat burning properties.
Trenbolone is a highly androgenic drug, and is an acetate ester. So the user will not experience water retention and due to the high androgenic nature of the drug they will look hard and dense. Androgenic properties usually account for strength, hardening, density, etc. Trenbolone also makes the user very vascular looking, which is an added bonus when dieting.
I feel that Trenbolone and Winstrol used together are a very good adjunct to a cutting cycle. These two drugs also have some synergy when used paired together and Winstrol also has a positive effect on progesterone sides, which some users experience with Tren.

The Base Of The Cycle

The base of any cycle, whether bulking or cutting, over four weeks in length should include a form of testosterone. Testosterone should be the backbone of your cycle with a does of around 500-1000mg. Testosterone is known to have powerful anti-catabolic effects and also a slight fat burning effect. It also makes the other drugs used in the cycle work more efficiently.
When dieting Propionate should be the preferred ester, using around 150mg EOD, to 100mg ED. But if you do not have access to Propionate one could use Cypionate or Enathanate. An ideal way to use Cypionate or Enathanate to get the most out of the drug would be to incorporate Propionate for the first two weeks, and also two weeks after you cease using the Cypionate or Enathanate.
This would insure that the test becomes quickly active in your system and you don’t have to worry about “building up” your blood concentration. Also this technique will allow you to come of the test at once and not wait for the slow ester to come out of your system.
After you have your base of testosterone in place you should then incorporate an androgenic drug such as Trenbolone or anavar. These drugs used alone or together make the user very strong due to the androgenic nature and with no bloat or water retention. These two drugs will also provide you with a dense and hard look, which is encouraged during a cutting cycle.
Anavar is also known to increase protein metabolism, which is a very desirable attribute. Tren could be used at 75mg to 100mg EOD to get the desired effect the user is looking for, and Anavar could be used at 40mg ED. If Anavar is cost prohibitive one should defiantly use Tren during their cutting cycle.

Test and Tren could suffice for a very effective cutting cycle, but most prefer to add a pure anabolic as well. Boldenone is very effective for dieting due to the protein anabolism and also increased vascularity. The only problem is that hunger sometimes becomes an issue when using this drug, but if one can control it, or use suppressants than it would be a very good addition.
If Boldenone no ester could be acquired that would work even better than the normally used undecylenate due to the fast acting acetate ester. Most users experience some degree of water retention while using the long ester, and should be ceased early in the cycle to allow time for the ester to clear the system. Another anabolic, which I spoke highly about earlier is Winstrol, especially if tren is paired with it.
These two drugs promote hard dense muscle and also attribute to strength. Primobolan Depot is probably one of the safest anabolic out there and is notorious in cutting cycles with out disruption of the body’s natural testosterone production. This drug works very well on low calorie diets (anti-catabolism), and will add tone and roundness to the bodybuilder. Any one of these three drugs would result in positive effects during one’s cutting cycle.

Cycle Design

Cycles' should be designed with a base of test including a dosage of around 500mg to 1000mg per week. On a typical 12 week long cycle one could start with 100mg EOD of propionate and 500mg of Enanthanate for the first two weeks. The Enanthanate would be used at a dose of 250mg EOD for the next eight weeks, than the cycle could be ended with 100mg of propionate ED for the last two weeks.
Boldenone could be used for the anabolic at a dose of 100mg EOD during weeks 1-10. If you have previous experience with Boldenone you could frontload it at 800mg for the first week to bring up your blood concentration faster. Trenbolone and Winstrol could be employed during the end of the cycle (4-10) to encourage a hardening to the physique. Tren could be used at 75mg EOD, and Winstrol at 50mg EOD to ED.
For the Anti-Estrogen Femara could be used at 2.5mg EOD throughout and also with post-cycle Clomid.
The cycle outlined above will produce dramatic results on one’s body composition. Along with a cutting cycle most bodybuilders would incorporate glucose disposal agents, metabolic stimulators, and also appetite suppressants, to produce dramatic and rapid results. But one must remember, all the drugs in the world won’t be worth a damn if diet and training isn’t on point.
Yeah, you can use the drugs above to look “good”, but I feel that is a complete waste of money. If you are going to inject yourself nearly every day, then there is no excuse for your diet and training not to be on point. But this article is for the bodybuilder who already knows how to diet and train, so I won’t get into specifics regarding diet. If you don’t know how to diet already you shouldn’t be reading this article.
I feel the cycle designed above could be altered to ones drug responsiveness, preference, and also availability, but will provide a bodybuilder with a good outline of which drugs will have the best effects in the fat loss arena.

Article 2

So, now its summer time and everyone is looking to show off their bodies, but is your body yet ready to be shown off? Many people out there are probably on top of their game and are almost at their ideal "summer" physique. This article is not intended for this group, but for the group of people who got a little too carried away with their bulking phase and are now trying to drastically loose fat as fast as possible without loosing their hard earned muscle tissue. In this article I am going to discuss what I feel are some very good "natural" pharmaceuticals, and how to properly apply them to drastically accelerate your fat loss diet. Now before I get natural bodybuilders yelling at me for saying that being natural entitles NO pharmaceuticals, these are what I feel to be natural, and also I would consider these non-natural if you were to compete using them. This is an article for people looking to get lean for the summer, not for a tested competition.
Anything I mention in this article will not be worth a damn if your diet is not properly in order, and your calories while dieting with these tricks should probably be even lower than a normal fat loss diet. I won't discuss nutritional practices in this article due to the fact that if you are willing to try some methods I discuss in this article your diet should already be on point as it is. The one thing I do recommend is to keep your protein intake at around 2g per pound of bodyweight, and your calories decently low.
They should be in the range of 12 calories per pound of bodyweight, although they could be adjusted upward or downward depending on your metabolism and training/cardio regimen. This is as far as I will dive into the nutritional aspects due to the fact that this isn't a nutritional fat loss article but more of an article discussing pharmaceutical tricks to aid your metabolism and fat loss efforts.
So lets get down to the main aspects of this article. I'm going to break up the content into three groups:
Glucose disposal agents
Metabolic Stimulators
Anti-Estrogen's
This may be extended into a 2 part series where I will discuss some of the non-natural aspects of dieting, but like I said that would be for a different article.
Glucose Disposal Agents
Glucose disposal agents do not play a direct role in fat loss, but act as an awesome aid in a fat loss diet. Many have probably heard or used some of the OTC (over the counter) glucose disposal agents such as, vanadyl sulfate with chromium, and ALA. Yes, these are all pretty decent glucose disposal agents due to the fact that they mimic and support the effects of insulin in the body, but they are not the best. My personal favorite is Glucophage, or by the trade name Metformin.
This drug heightens the body's sensitivity to insulin, and is currently used to treat type 2 diabetes. For fat loss purposes Metformin is used in ketogenic diets to rapidly drop blood sugar to quickly induce ketosis. For a mixed ratio diet, Metformin would be used with carb meals insuring that the carbohydrates go to muscle tissue over fat, this is a great addition to a high sugar post workout meal.
Additionally, due to the fact that it controls insulin levels in the body, it also greatly reduces hunger in between meals. Metformin is very beneficial in that it heightens insulin sensitivity, which is very good due to the fact that most Americans are insulin insensitive. This over production of insulin which insulin insensitivity causes can lead to weight gain and also various other health problems. Now, the best way to use Metformin would be to take 2000-3000mg divided up with meals. On a moderate carb diet, you could split up the dose and take it only with your carb meals.
If you follow a CKD (cyclic ketogenic diet) type diet, the best way to use it would be with your weekend carb up, which would follow the same schedule as above. Metformin is not needed during the week, but if you like the appetite suppressing effects that it gives you, you can also use it during the week. Another thing you can do on a CKD is to have a small amount of fast acting carbs (around 40-50g) after your workout with Metformin. This will not cause you to drop out of ketosis due to the fact that the Metformin will quickly shuttle the carbohydrates into the muscle cells while still running on ketones.
Metabolic Stimulaters
This is a given, I mean really, who uses a fat loss diet with out incorporating a thermo like ECA? Not too many people do, with all the fat loss ECA stacks on the market these days. Now don't get me wrong I think ECA is very good for fat loss, but the "optimal" fat loss combo would have to be T-3 (mostly known as Cytomel and Cynomel) and Clenbuterol. Yes, these two drugs are illegal, but not too hard to find with a little research. T-3 is a great drug whether you are natural or not, you just have to adjust your dosage accordingly and also supplement your diet with high levels of protein.
Don't get me wrong, this drug is extremely powerful, I mean its straight thyroid (you can feel it pretty quickly) and also dangerous when not used correctly, let me repeat that, very dangerous! T-3 greatly enhances your metabolic rate which slows down as your body fat and calories get lower, which means you don't have to drop calories extremely low towards the end of your diet. It also works synergistically with Clenbuterol, and keeps the effect of the drug longer.
Everyone thinks that you have to be on gear to use T-3 due to the "wasting effects", this is bunk. If you use a suitable dosage which (for a natural) would be somewhere between 50mcg-100mcg in divided dosages, and someone on gear could use upwards of 150mcg or more depending on bodyweight.
On T-3 you CANNOT develop the more is better mentality due to the fact that number one, you will burn up all your muscle tissue, and number two, you could potentially screw up your metabolism for the rest of your life, I think number two catches peoples attention. Also every one talks about the "T-3 crash" when you discontinue using it, this is also false due to the fact that most of the people who talk about this normally go back to a bulking diet after the finish, of course your going to gain fat back if you do that!
The best way to come off would be to taper down and when coming of (due to the sluggishness of your metabolism) resume you diet plan for 4-6 weeks after, then start to slowly add calories back in until you are at your normal level. To cycle T-3, I would start with 25mg for the first week, 50mcg the second, 75mcg the third, (you could go up to 100mcg if you feel your body needs it) then stay at that dose for 2 weeks, then taper down by 25mcg per week until you are off. Again this is a dangerous drug when not used correctly, and you have to know your body very well (diet wise) to avoid muscle loss, which could occur.
Clenbuterol is similar to the effects of Ephedrine, but I feel they are much better and also it is less harsh (side effects). The proper way to use this is 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off (ECA would be used on the off weeks). Dosages range from 60mcg per day to 180mcg per day, but again this is very individual due to the fact that people experience side effects at different dosages. Clenbuterol's effects are very profound on body composition, users commonly report overall fat loss and a hardening to the physique very quickly. I feel this drug works very well in two-week intervals. Again like T-3, I would start off at 60mcg per day and taper up by 20mcg per day until you are at your desired dosage, I really don't feel you have to taper off of this drug, but some do. Also if you are not a first time user you can start off at the dosage you normally use and run that through out, but if not taper up to find out the effects it has on your body.
Also, take your daily dosages before 3-4 due to the fact that it could cause some insomnia in some people when taken later. Another drug I would use (only on the weeks with the Clen) is Yohimbine HCL. This enhances the overall effects of Clen and T-3 by allowing the effects to last longer, and it also suppresses your appetite very well. The only downside to Yohimbine is that it is an anti diuretic and will make you hold some water while using it, but I feel it is worth it. Dosages are usually around 2-3 5mg tabs spread out with the Clen.
Anti-Estrogens
Most people have heard of Anti-E's due to their role in a person's steroid cycle. Anti-Estrogens are used to prevent gynocomastia (the formation of breast tissue) from steroids that aromatize and also reduce water retention. However, Anti-Estrogens can be also used for a host of other reasons, and in our case, fat loss. Estrogen is a "fattening" hormone, and if it is kept in check while dieting you can receive a hard look without even using anabolic steroids. If you don't believe me, notice the body fat gain when a girl starts using birth control, this is caused by the increase in estrogen levels.
The best drugs for this effect would be Nolvadex (if you are not using anabolic drugs), or the much more powerful (but also very expensive) Arimidex and Femara. Dosages of Nolvadex are usually between 20mg and 40mg a day, Arimidex is usually 1/2mg to 1mg a day, and for Femara, one 2.5mg tab could be used ED or EOD. These could all be used by them self but you could stack Nolvadex with Arimidex or Femara due to the fact that Nolvadex and Arimidex both effect estrogen in the body differently.
These are very good for the natural dieter due to the fact that they will give you a hard (steroid) look, and they will also allow you to retain more muscle mass while dieting. For someone using Anabolic drugs during a fat loss cycle, they should be used regardless because of steroids aromatizing into estrogen, and also they will keep water down and give you a "dry" look.
So here they are, but how would you combine them for the best results? Lets put together a theoretical cycle using only the drugs mentioned in the article for someone who has used them before, for someone that has not, just taper like stated in the article.
Week 1-2
20mg of Nolvadex
60mcg of Clenbuterol upon wakening
50mcg of Cytomel
1 tab of Yohimbine around 30min after the Clen get from (1Fast400)
25mcg of Cytomel
60mcg of Clenbuterol before 2-4 pm.
1 tab of Yohimbine around 30min after the Clen
2000mg of Metformin spread through out the day
Weeks 3-4
Same as the previous weeks, but switch the Clen with ECA, if you want to you can also increase the Nolvadex to 40mg a day.
Weeks 5-6
Drop the ECA and the Yohimbine, and taper down the dosage of T-3 by 25mcg each week, you can keep the Metformin the same or drop it if you want.
Weeks 7-10
Stay off all the drugs and keep your calories the same or slightly increase your carb intake (if you are on low carbs) to aid in your metabolism. During these weeks your metabolism will be sluggish, so watch your diet and keep up with your cardio, the diet isn't over yet.
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Old 02-12-2005, 01:25 AM
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Certain aas do help with fat loss(Dbol!, Primo, winny, tren, anavar). T-mag had an article on this years ago before they went money crazy. You might be able to drag the article up from their archives. Do search for "Cutting" at www.t-mag.com
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Old 02-13-2005, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomfighter
Certain aas do help with fat loss(Dbol!, Primo, winny, tren, anavar). T-mag had an article on this years ago before they went money crazy. You might be able to drag the article up from their archives. Do search for "Cutting" at www.t-mag.com
Thanks for the info...

I usually lean out on an AAS cycle, but I usually credit that to the added muscle mass...for every 10lbs of muscle you gain, you burn an extra 500 calories at rest per day. I will try and find the article you are referring to, I'd like to read more into this.
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Old 02-13-2005, 09:38 AM
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Sorry K but I disagree. If the caloric input is the same during the cycle as before than using by itself can cause a loss in body fat. The metabolism picks up. Less protein is converted to fat. And as I said studies have shown that certain aas do affect the way the body deals with fat. In that article each aas was shown to have different effects and they explained the mechanisms involved. I'll go and see if I can Copy that article.
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Old 02-13-2005, 10:04 AM
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Steroid Dieting
Your Guide to Losing Fat While "On"
by Cy Willson

So you wanna drop some fat and you wanna' do it at breakneck speed, huh? What's that? You also want to retain all your muscle mass while greatly reducing calories? Man, you want it all, don't you? Well, it can be done, if you take the proper precautions.

We all know the danger of a super strict diet: potential muscle loss. Who wants to look ripped if you have to lose a lot of hard-earned muscle to get there? Of course, you could go on a sensible diet and slowly drop the fat, but hey, where's the fun in that? Besides, we're in a hurry here!

Many people choose to use steroids while on a severe diet to stave off any possible muscle loss. But which ones and how much? And how should you eat while "on"? Our junior guru Cy Willson has the answers for you. And don't worry, if steroids aren't your bag, he'll also provide some legal alternatives to help you rapidly drop the fat while keeping the muscle.


The Real Anabolic Diet

At one time or another, everyone involved in bodybuilding decides to shed the fat and "see what's under there." With those that use anabolic steroids, this effort has always included the use of drugs that have gained a reputation for their so-called "hardening effect."

Most have attributed this "hardening effect" to a simple reduction in water retention. For example, Joe Blow is using 1,000 mg of Testosterone enanthate per week along with 50 mg per day of methandrostenolone for a course of six to eight weeks. He stops using those two drugs on the ninth week and switches to androgens which cause less water retention. This lack of water retention is the effect referred to as "hardening," right? Actually, I don't think that's the entire story.

True, the reduction in water does play a role. However, I also think certain steroids are much more potent than others in terms of reducing adipose tissue and/or inhibiting the uptake of triglycerides into adipose tissue. Think about it: androgens vary in terms of their anabolic effects upon muscle tissue, so why would this be any different in terms of their effects on the reduction of adipose tissue?

I'll go over my reasoning behind this in the body of my article, as well as provide a list of drugs that are best suited for a fat loss phase. I'll also include a diet plan that will greatly accelerate the reduction of adipose tissue.

Don't worry, I'll also include a "steroid alternative" section which will consist of prohormone usage for those of you who don't like to worry about DEA agents, phone taps, and undercover officers dressed like fitness bunnies, which only paranoid bastards like me worry about anyway.


The AR (Androgen Receptor)

There are many mechanisms behind the ability of androgens to reduce body fat. However, one key determinant of the amount of adipose tissue reduced is that particular androgen's ability to bind to the AR.

I need to mention that most androgens interact with both AR and GR (Glucocorticoid Receptors). We'll touch on that later. For now, let me explain why it matters how well an androgen binds to the AR in terms of reducing adipose tissue. Most of you know that ARs are present in tissue such as muscle. This is one of the mechanisms behind their ability to induce muscular hypertrophy. Now what does this have to do with body fat? Simple, AR's are present in adipose tissue as well. (1)

What does this mean? Well, it's been shown that the higher the density of ARs, the more that lipid uptake is inhibited. (2) It's also been shown that androgens that bind avidly to the AR cause an increase or upregulation of AR in adipocytes. (1) I think the greater the androgen binds to the AR, the more upregulation of AR in adipocytes occurs. This would lead to a significant reduction in subcutaneous adipose tissue. (3)

Notice that I specifically mentioned subcutaneous adipose tissue (fat right beneath the skin) and not visceral adipose tissue (fat around the internal organs). Why did I bother to differentiate between the two? Simple. For the most part, we bodybuilders are concerned only with subcutaneous adipose tissue. Visceral fat doesn't have much of an effect on a person's appearance. For that reason, we're only concerning ourselves with subcutaneous adipose tissue.

Now, what other mechanisms of action can account for the effects seen with those steroids that bind tightly to the AR? Well, those that bind tightly to the AR will decrease LPL (Lipoprotein Lipase), which is an enzyme that causes lipid accumulation. (4) They may also decrease Acetyl-CoA Carboxylase and Fatty Acid Synthetase.(5)

Another interesting note is that androgens have been shown to increase adenyl cylclase as well. This is the enzyme which is responsible for the conversion of cytoplasmic ATP into cyclic AMP. Increasing its concentrations is a good thing, in other words.


The Glucocorticoid Receptor (GR)

There are certain androgens that can interact with GRs and this may very well be another mechanism behind their ability to induce a loss of adipose tissue. The mechanism? Well, the binding of cortisol to the GR can cause an increase in LPL. (6,7,8) This isn't what we want if we're trying to drop body fat, as LPL causes lipid accumulation. So, certain androgens may prevent lipid accumulation through this mechanism.

Some androgens may do one of two things or possibly even both in order to lower LPL levels in adipose tissue. That is, they may bind to the GR and thus prevent cortisol from binding and increasing LPL activity, or they may downregulate the number of GRs in adipose tissue. (9, 10, 11)


Microsomal Receptors (MR)

The last mechanism involves the presence of the AR in subcellular fractions. To be more specific, the AR has been identified in microsomal portions of the cell. So what does this mean? Certain androgens are able to bind to the AR in microsomes and carry out a posttranscriptional effect. In fact, it appears that out of all the available androgens, stanozolol (Winstrol) is able to bind to this receptor while all others (with the possible exception of danazol) are not.

If you couple this with the idea that the AR is present in the subcellular fractions of adipose tissue or the microsomes to be more specific this can account for its ability to induce fat loss. (12,13,14)

Now, with the above information, we can put together a "stack" of androgens which should accelerate the reduction in adipose tissue in a somewhat synergistic manner.


The "Grocery" List

Trenbolone

This particular steroid has recently gained back some popularity, mainly due to the fact that there's now a high quality version available, namely GAC's Humatren. What exactly makes this steroid so special? Glad you asked.

First off, it's been shown to bind to the AR greater than Testosterone and even nandrolone. (15) This ability to bind so avidly to the AR is probably one of the reasons why this steroid is so effective at accelerating fat loss. The thing that makes it unique from other androgens, however, is that it's been shown to bind avidly to the GR as well. (15,16) This effect wasn't seen with Testosterone or nandrolone.

Oxandrolone (Optional)

This androgen has been shown to decrease subcutaneous abdominal fat to a greater degree than Testosterone and nandrolone, even though the dosages employed with oxandrolone were much lower. On a milligram-per-milligram basis, oxandrolone is much more potent that Testosterone and nandrolone in terms of reducing adipose tissue. (17)

So how does that happen? Even though I can't say for sure, it appears that oxandrolone binds rather well to the AR, possibly even more so than Testosterone or nandrolone. This would explain the difference in adipose tissue reductions. A study performed in young men also demonstrated that oxandrolone likely exerts its effects via the AR.

Another interesting note is that oxandrolone induced an increase in AR expression in muscle. (18) Now, if we apply this to what I was talking about in the first portion of this article, it makes sense that oxandrolone would be potent at reducing adipose tissue. Assuming that it's increasing AR expression in adipose tissue as well, this fits perfectly in to the idea that a strong binding to the AR induces upregulation of the AR content in adipose tissue and thus leads to lipolytic effects.

Testosterone

This king of androgens should also be included for a few reasons. From what I've seen, it appears that Testosterone is unique in that it's been shown to increase the number of beta adrenergic receptors (this phenomenon can increase the effectiveness of beta-2 agonists like ephedrine and clenbuterol as well as exercise induced lipolysis) and may also alter Hormone Sensitive Lipase (HSL) in a positive manner.(19,20,21) Whether or not other androgens can do this to the same degree, I'm uncertain, but I'm taking precautions here.

Stanozolol (Winstrol)

As I noted earlier, this androgen is unique in that it binds to the microsomal AR in adipose tissue in order to exert its effects.


The Stack

In case you didn't notice, the three main ingredients in this stack are trenbolone, Testosterone, and stanozolol. Using these three drugs can cover all three mechanisms that can accelerate lipolysis. (Before I move on, I must say that there's still a myriad of things we don't know about anabolic steroids. That includes all mechanisms of action.) So, here's the "fat attack" stack:

300 mg per week trenbolone acetate

As a side note, the only brand of trenbolone I'll recommend with confidence in terms of both efficacy and sterility is GAC's Humatren. I don't want people complaining to me about infections or sickness from using a home brew or a vet product. If you have the "hook up," I recommend you take advantage of it and if you don't, start making some contacts! (Just don't e-mail us about it, buddy.)

250-300 mg per week Testosterone

The specific ester isn't that big of a deal in this case, but a blend like Sostenon would work nicely.

350 mg per week stanozolol

If you're injecting this amount, the only brand I can recommend with confidence is Zambon.

25-50 mg per day of methandrostenolone (Explanation below)

As an option, you can possibly substitute oxandrolone for trenbolone but you'd then have to add some rather potent anti-glucocorticoids like fluoxymesterone or methandrolstenolone. It simplifies things to just use trenbolone. If money is of no concern however, you can add oxandrolone in with the stack at around 25 mg per day, along with trenbolone.

As a side note, I'd also like to recommend using methandrostenolone (D-bol) at a dosage of around 25 to 50 mg per day. This is because of this particular steroid's ability to increase dopamine levels. Now before you freak out because I'm recommending a drug used to "bulk up," I'd like you to realize a few things. First, this increase in dopamine can be very beneficial in terms of reducing adipose tissue. I've always noticed this effect while using the drug, as have others. As long as you're in the 25 to 50 mg per day range, you shouldn't see much water retention. If it bothers you that much, you can simply drop the D-bol out a week or two prior to when you want to look your leanest.

While the notion that methandrostenolone increases dopamine levels may be a little controversial, I stand behind my assertion. My reasoning? Well, certain effects/side effects seen with the drug share the exact characteristics of increased dopamine levels: increased heart rate, insomnia, feelings of well being, increased libido, increased blood pressure accompanied by a headache and yes, a slight anorectic effect.

Not only this, but one study demonstrated the drug's ability to increase dopamine synthesis whereas all other androgens tested had no effect. (22) So what do these increased levels of dopamine do? Well, dopamine exerts the following effects either directly or indirectly via conversion to norepinephrine and epinephrine: appetite suppression, activation of beta-3 receptors (which can lead to increased oxygen consumption of brown adipose tissue as well as prevent insulin stimulated glucose uptake into white adipocytes), decreased insulin levels, decreased Lipoprotein Lipase (LPL) activity in adipose tissue, stimulated oxygen consumption in general, and increased Resting Energy Expenditure (REE). So, in general, all this will enhance lipolysis. (23-30)

Just for safety, I'd also like you to monitor your blood pressure very closely if you're also taking some type of stimulant (ephedrine/caffeine) in combo with your steroid stack. These also increase norepinephrine and epinephrine. If you experience headaches and/or increased blood pressure, either lower your D-bol dosage or cut down the stimulants. You could also drop the stimulants completely.


The Legal Eagle Alternative: Prohormones or Pro-Steroids

I realize that some of you don't want to get involved in illegal activities. For those of you who want to play it safe, you can take the prohormone route. You'd need to use a prohormone that binds to the AR along with another that exerts its effects through a mechanism that's independent of the AR.

So, you have the option of using something like 4-androstenediol and norandrostenediol, which apparently don't bind very well to the AR but exert their effects via other mechanisms. What's out there we can use that's able to bind to the AR? Well, until now, it appears there wasn't one available. However, Biotest's MAG-10 contains a compound which binds avidly to the AR, which is A1-E. MAG-10 also contains a highly bioavailable form of 4-AD (4-AD-EC) whose effects are non-AR mediated. (For more info, read the article here.)

Another benefit is that some 4-AD converts to Testosterone via the enzyme 3 Beta-HSD. While 4-AD is apparently very anabolic all on its own, it's also been shown to elevate endogenous Testosterone in men to a mid-high to high level, but still within the normal range through the aforementioned conversion.

So with MAG-10, it appears as though you hit three different mechanisms that will help you to accelerate fat loss. This combination should produce a potent synergism that will enable you to drop body fat at the rate you would while on anabolic steroids. The only difference is that MAG-10 is perfectly legal.


The Diet Plan

No amount of 'roids will make up for a crappy diet, so I'll provide a plan for you to follow. Don't worry, this won't be too complicated. First, I'd like you to consume between 50 to 120 grams of carbohydrates per day to keep T3 at a respectable level. Now, whether you consume 50 or 120 grams is "weight dependent," meaning that if you're 200 pounds or less, consume 50 grams per day. If you're above 200, consume 100 to 120 grams of carbs per day. You have two options with carb intake:

Option #1: Split your total carb intake in half and consume one portion early in the day so your workouts don't suffer. Then consume the other half after your workout.

Option #2: Consume your total daily carbohydrate allotment after your workout.

Either way, I recommend that you consume Biotest Surge post workout and tailor the amount used according to your carbohydrate requirements.

As for protein requirements, I'd like you to consume at least 1.5 grams per pound of body weight.

Lastly, I want you to consume 25 to 35 grams of fat per day with the majority of those calories coming from omega 3 fatty acids: fish oil, flax oil, walnuts, etc. Again, 25 grams if you're 200 pounds or under and 35 if you're over 200.

So let's use a 200 pound guy as an example:

200 x 1.5 = 300 grams of protein

200 pounds = 50 grams of carbohydrates

200 pounds = 25 grams of fat

Total calories = 1625


Daily Example of Food Intake

Meal 1 Around 45 grams of protein and 4 grams of fat (fish oil capsules)

Meal 2-5 Same

Biotest Surge for post workout (2 scoops = 49 grams of carbs, 25 grams protein. The amount of fat is trivial so we won't factor it in)

Meal 6 Same as meal 1


Essentially, I want you to consume almost nothing but protein and fat throughout the day for each of your meals. I believe it would be optimal to consume near-zero carbohydrates throughout the day and for post workout purposes, consume Surge. Then go back to your protein and fat meals. Now if you absolutely can't work out without consuming carbs shortly before exercise, then you can consume around half of your total daily intake early in the day as I stated previously.

Also, if you absolutely need a protein source that has a rather high amount of fat, (salmon, steak, etc.), then you may subtract the fat grams from a certain amount of meals and then consume whatever it is you wanted to eat. For instance, if you had a protein source that contained 12 grams of fat, you could skip the addition of fat to three of your other meals.

I know some of you may think this amount of calories is too low, but you have to remember we have the anti-catabolic/anabolic effect of androgens on our side. This will not only aid in fat loss, but will allow us to maintain our lean body mass to a significant degree.

In case you didn't notice, this plan is to be employed when you wish to drop a significant amount of body fat in a short amount of time. If time isn't an issue, then you may increase your calories. However, I still think the above formula will prove most effective for your goal.


A Final Note

Let's all do our part in dispelling the idea of reduced water retention as the main mechanism for which the "hardening effect" occurs. I hope you'll use the stacks and diet I've outlined above when you wish to drop body fat at an accelerated rate while greatly minimizing loss of lean body mass. Give it a try and I promise you'll be satisfied. Every successful bodybuilder I know follows this same basic plan. Plus, it's what I use!

Thnius isn't the article I spoke of but it contains some of the same info. I'll search more later. Where I live limits the amount of time I can spend online.
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Old 02-13-2005, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigkarch
well, even writer says no amount of roids can make up for a crappy diet....I would like to see one do this same diet and not do aas and compare just fat loss vs the one who does roids....but keeping or increasing muscle aids in fat loss too.....

they key why this works is diet and training...ok, I can see where you are saying aas in combos can aid in fat loss, but IMHO we put a too high of a price of aas to make us lean and lose fat...I'm sure there are studies of people taking aas and not working out and eating a regular meal, no diet manipulation, a small amount of fat may have been lost...but was it noticeable. the amount probably will have decimal points and will need a scientific way to calculate the loss...but as I have said before, I dont know everything.....
I remember a scientific study that did show that Testosterone injected at 500mgs per week increased muscle mass and decreased body fat in both groups. One group of guys worked out and the other didn't, no change in diet for either group.. I can't remember exactly how much muscle was gained for each group, or how much fatloss occured, but the Testosterone did make a change in each group from what I remember. If someone has the study I am referring to, please post it.

I am still of the opinion that the fatloss is due to the added muscle mass gained from the AAS...
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