Need some advice on Test/Tren/Deca cycle (from Anabolics 2006 book)

[averageJoe]

Hello everyone, from mods to seniors to junior users like me

This is my first post here, so allow me to introduce myself. This a great forum with users that have tons of experience on training and supplements and I'm glad I've found it!

I'be been wanting to go on the gear for quite some time but I never had anyone to guide me to the correct direction. I've met a lot of guys that have taken steroids at the gym with sizes to show for but I never trusted any of their advice as they seemed careless and irresponsible to me and I definatelly didn't want to inject myself with things I didn't understand. Therefore, I decided to research the subject myself. I've been doing a lot of seaching on the internet the past months, I've read many steroid profiles on various sites and I've been through many many posts in different forums and I also bought the Anabolics 2006 book from William Llewellyn which I found very enlightening.

My stats:
male of course, 25 y. old
5'11" - 185lbs -10-11% bf
(unfortunatelly a receding hair line)

I've been lifting since 18years old but I'm only counting the past 3 years I've been at uni as that was a period that I was eating and resting properly. Basically those 3 years made a huge impact on my phisique as I was living for studying, training and resting.

I think this is the time for me to go on steroids and I want to do a bulking cycle around 12 weeks long and that's what I've been thinking:

200mg test prop weekly (with eod injections)
225 mg tren ac weekly (injections are spread out eod with the proprionate)
200mg deca ew and stopping 2 weeks earlier than tren/test

eating about 240grams of protein and 600grams of carbs a day

Basically this cycle is a modified novice cycle from Llewellyn's book that says is an excellent bulking cycle.

However I have a few questions after reading some posts here as some seem to be contradicting the cycle from the anabolics book:

1) First of all I've read some posts saying that doing the same amount of deca and test. is not a good idea and test. should be more.

2) 200mg for test/deca is not much (even for a beginner) and results are not very satisfying.
If that's true, what about 400mg test/300mg deca ? I'm not gonna ask if it's better because the higher dosages will yield better gains but is it worth doing as much for a beginner as well?

3) Finally I can't find the post where I've read that tren shouldn't be mixed with deca/test. At first I was thinking a test/deca only cycle myself but then Llewellyn's book said that trenbolone's role in the cycle is to help to harden up the gains.

I would really appreciate any input and advice on my cycle as I'm determined to do it right. Please don't flame me for being a newby I'm not being ignorant, I'm just learning.

thanks
AverageJoe.

[Président]

I'm not a pro here on this forum like a bunch of experience guy but for the couple of years of educating myself and training with AAS i can tell you this: for a first cycle do it simple with no more than two drugs, and go with some enanthate ester,unless you like the needles.Incorporate more test than trenbolone or Deca, they are two progestogenic that can cause gyno(at a high dosage) and kill your sex drive.

[terrorizer2]

Thats too mant drugs for a first cyle mate.Save deca and tren until you have done a few cycles.Stick to 500mg a week of test e,test cyp,or sustanon.If you want you can do dbol for the first 4 or 5 weeks at 30mg a day.That is plenty for a first cycle and combined with a good PCT should give very pleasing gains.


www.muscletalk.co.uk

[averageJoe]

Originally Posted by terrorizer2

Thats too mant drugs for a first cyle mate.Save deca and tren until you have done a few cycles.Stick to 500mg a week of test e,test cyp,or sustanon.If you want you can do dbol for the first 4 or 5 weeks at 30mg a day.That is plenty for a first cycle and combined with a good PCT should give very pleasing gains.

www.muscletalk.co.uk

Yeah but don't u think test and deca (together) will work better than 500mg of test alone. Besides I was concerned that the dosage wasn't that much anyway?

[turboed]

test and deca work great together but if it is your first cycle don't go crazy and do what terrorizer said,stick to test only,you're still going to gain size.

[terrorizer2]

Originally Posted by turboed

test and deca work great together but if it is your first cycle don't go crazy and do what terrorizer said,stick to test only,you're still going to gain size.

As turboed says 'don't go crazy on your first cycle'.The temptation is to rely on gear too much.Diet and training are more important,tthe gear is the icing on the cake.You will grow well on test and dbol,save the deca for when you need a little extra.You don't ned to increase gear every cycle.I know a guy who looks awesome and he only takes 750mg of test a week with dbol for the first 5 weeks.He has been doing the same cycle for years.People respond different.

Wait and se how you grow each cycle before increasing the dose.I see too many novices coming up with elaborate cycles that are a waste of time and money when the basic drugs are all you need unless you want to compete.

Also regarding your diet,i would try and get another 100 grams of protein.


www.muscletalk.co.uk

[HDH]

Originally Posted by terrorizer2

Thats too mant drugs for a first cyle mate.Save deca and tren until you have done a few cycles.Stick to 500mg a week of test e,test cyp,or sustanon.If you want you can do dbol for the first 4 or 5 weeks at 30mg a day.That is plenty for a first cycle and combined with a good PCT should give very pleasing gains.


www.muscletalk.co.uk

If you feel like you really need to do more than one then listen to terrorizer. You will be more than happy with the gains from this cycle. I actually think the test alone would make you happy too but I also added an oral my first cycle. Did I need it? Probably not. It has been my experience to stay away from the tren and deca mix. I read the same thing in A 2006 and I regret doing it. Progesterone sides are a bitch if you end up being prone to gyno. Nolva wouldn't help a bit. I dropped the deca and then still had to get letro. My advice- stay away from it. Just remember eat, eat, eat. At 185 that will be a huge factor for you.

HDH

[averageJoe]

Originally Posted by HDH

If you feel like you really need to do more than one then listen to terrorizer. You will be more than happy with the gains from this cycle. I actually think the test alone would make you happy too but I also added an oral my first cycle. Did I need it? Probably not. It has been my experience to stay away from the tren and deca mix. I read the same thing in A 2006 and I regret doing it. Progesterone sides are a bitch if you end up being prone to gyno. Nolva wouldn't help a bit. I dropped the deca and then still had to get letro. My advice- stay away from it. Just remember eat, eat, eat. At 185 that will be a huge factor for you.

HDH

Yeah I decided to drop the tren and save it for another cutting cycle. I think I'm gonna do a 300mg test / 200mg deca to comply with the guys that suggest more test than deca in a cycle.

I really want deca in the mix as everything I've read so far says that the gains may not be as spectacular as testosterone but they are easier to maintain in the long run.

I'm also thinking of adding 50mg proviron ed. apart from nolvadex. What do you think guys?

[terrorizer2]

Originally Posted by averageJoe

Yeah I decided to drop the tren and save it for another cutting cycle. I think I'm gonna do a 300mg test / 200mg deca to comply with the guys that suggest more test than deca in a cycle.

I really want deca in the mix as everything I've read so far says that the gains may not be as spectacular as testosterone but they are easier to maintain in the long run.

I'm also thinking of adding 50mg proviron ed. apart from nolvadex. What do you think guys?

It's not a case of deca being easier to maintain gains,it's your diet and PCT that will maximixe the retention of gains.Deca and dbol both give bloat so you will lose weight post cycle.Personally i would save the deca and do 500mg of test with dbol at 30mg for 5 weeks.

Proviron at 50mg a day will help with water retention but i would save the nolvadex until PCT or if you get gyno symptoms.


www.muscletalk.co.uk

[Archie]

Originally Posted by averageJoe

Yeah I decided to drop the tren and save it for another cutting cycle. I think I'm gonna do a 300mg test / 200mg deca to comply with the guys that suggest more test than deca in a cycle.

I really want deca in the mix as everything I've read so far says that the gains may not be as spectacular as testosterone but they are easier to maintain in the long run.

I'm also thinking of adding 50mg proviron ed. apart from nolvadex. What do you think guys?

To be honest mate, if you are running that cycle due to "comply" with the suggestion of others, I suggest you wait until you know enough to make educated suggestions to YOURSELF.

As for deca against test, they are different drugs.

Your obviously scared of compromising your gains but test is the main course, the other drugs are the garnish. learn to cook an egg before you cook an omlette

Archie

[averageJoe]

Originally Posted by Archie

To be honest mate, if you are running that cycle due to "comply" with the suggestion of others, I suggest you wait until you know enough to make educated suggestions to YOURSELF.

As for deca against test, they are different drugs.

Your obviously scared of compromising your gains but test is the main course, the other drugs are the garnish. learn to cook an egg before you cook an omlette

Archie

I think you're flaming me without reason :-)

I wanted to do the test/deca cycle myself, I just changed the dosage from 200/200 to 300/200 because many posts were saying that testosterone should be more. It's true that I didn't find any evidence to support that but increasing the weekly dosage by 100ml to 300mg won't do any harm at all AND I'm complying with the wiser senior guys here without doing crazy things.
It's not like I'm doing something that I wasn't gonna do in the first place!

[aminus]

If ur going to use test prop, then I would use npp for that cycle

[averageJoe]

Originally Posted by aminus

If ur going to use test prop, then I would use npp for that cycle

Can you explain what does npp stand for?

Thanks

[terrorizer2]

NPP is a short ester deca,similar half life to test prop.


www.muscletalk.co.uk

[averageJoe]

Originally Posted by terrorizer2

NPP is a short ester deca,similar half life to test prop.


www.muscletalk.co.uk

Oh... so NPP is Nandrolone Phenylpropionate. That way I can mix them eod in the same syringe?