nolvadex - MESO-Rx

yoyoma · #1 (**permalink**) 05-08-2009, 12:06 PM

i read a lot of info on nolvadex as a device to help restart the bodys natural testosterone production post cycle...so my question is, why not just take nolvadex and use the body's natural test. i am sure for the serious body builder this sounds pretty lame, but for the average guy looking to gain 5-10 lbs, and to increase his test seems logical. what do you guys think?

bigbench · #2 (**permalink**) 05-08-2009, 12:30 PM

The increase in test levels is still within the normal range, not really anything significant. Its used to get the body to return test levels to normal, NOT to stimulate test output

BBC3 · #3 (**permalink**) 05-08-2009, 12:31 PM

Yoyo, Nolva is a SERM, which means it selectively stops estrogen from binding at certain sites in the body by means of the Nolva filling the receptor first and leaving the estrogen no where to "stick". Nolva is a drug that has a very strong impact on the breast tissue area. It is an anti-cancer drug because of this. It is believed that estrogens feed breast cancer cells and therefore it is good to block the estrogen from getting there. So you can see where estrogen has some use in preventing Gynomastia, whick is also caused by too much estrogen in breast area. With that said, I am not sure where else the Nolva actually blocks estrogen, and how well. They are saying now that it may be a good drug to prevent prostate cancer. Hence it must have an effect on the ability of estrogens to "bite" in that area as well. This is not for sure nor necessarily a good thing. I have also heard for many years that nolva is a great cause of prostate cancer. The evidence is not in there yet and I am sure there are many variables that have to be confined.

With regard to your concept, this is not new. However, rather than use a SERM, you would choose an AI or (aromataze inhibitor). This stops estrogens from ever forming in the first place, so there is nothing to block, and you get a systemwide effect!! Testosterone aromatizes into estone, estradiol, etc..) through the aromataze P450 enzyte (i believe). The drugs Arimidex, and Letrozole are used for exactly this. Arimidex with stop up to 80% of estrogen formation within days, Letrozole with stop up to 98% same. Be warned and this is not a good thing long term, Estrogen has a healthy place in the body, for examply not enough can cause cardio/hearth damage, etc..) Free testosterone is the testosteron that can be utilized, aromatized,etc. By means of preventing the aromatization of testosterone to estrogens, you have left more available testosterone in the tank. I have heard or people raising their testosterone levels 300-400 point from the use of Arimidex alone. I am assuming that this would be due to the excess free testosterone available, allowing for less total testosterone to fall into the free catagorie, and hence more is available. I dont yet know how everything else plays into this, but yes you can theoretically achieve results like this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoyoma

i read a lot of info on nolvadex as a device to help restart the bodys natural testosterone production post cycle...so my question is, why not just take nolvadex and use the body's natural test. i am sure for the serious body builder this sounds pretty lame, but for the average guy looking to gain 5-10 lbs, and to increase his test seems logical. what do you guys think?

BBC3 · #4 (**permalink**) 05-08-2009, 12:34 PM

The increase that Bench is referring to is Nolvadex's slight ability to stimulate the HPTA. Meaning it somehow disrupts the hormones in the body in a way the make the hypothalmus and pituitary think they need to pump out more hormones, or hormone signalers (LF & FSH). Arimidex is not know for its great ability here. But I don't think that was what you are after.

yoyoma · #5 (**permalink**) 05-08-2009, 12:50 PM

what i'm after is exactly this... 5-10 lbs of weight increase, an increase in my sex drive that has gone down considerably, and an increase in strength.

i know my diet has to change, and my workout routine has to be more intense.

so far what i'm considering is dbol, only because i cant seem to find tbol anywhere and dbol appears to be readily available everywhere. i want to start out at very low doses, 5-15mg per day, if that to see how my body reacts, and even then no more than 15-20mg. nolva would follow for the pct.

i know the small amounts may not do much, but i dont want to do a complete cycle and greatly change my body or grow to fast or to big with the sides that come along with a normal cycle. like i said above my sex drive and a 5-10 lb gain is all i'm after.

i'm 160 lbs, 6' tall, and 33 years old. - if you saw me you'd guess my age at 24-25. tall and thin... 8% body fat.

BBC3 · #6 (**permalink**) 05-08-2009, 12:58 PM

Ok, now it is time for you to read!! Dol, Tbol, these are going to give you quick gains through fast increases in test DHT Estrogen, the works. You get hard dick, big bloat, maybe some B-cups, and it last about as long as it took to put it on. Besides that dose aint gonna do shit. What you need is a good 16week test cyp /deca cycle. Testosterone is not putting on some magic cape and flying away to catch a falling building. It is all diet and work ethic. MEANING Testosterone is not going to make you fat or bloated (most likely) unless you want it to. So look at the stickies up top. Dbol ONLY is playtime for fools that aren't serious about improvement. Personally I have had a great deal of enjoyment stacking the Dbol on top of a full blown test cyle mid stride.. Read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoyoma

what i'm after is exactly this... 5-10 lbs of weight increase, an increase in my sex drive that has gone down considerably, and an increase in strength.

i know my diet has to change, and my workout routine has to be more intense.

so far what i'm considering is dbol, only because i cant seem to find tbol anywhere and dbol appears to be readily available everywhere. i want to start out at very low doses, 5-15mg per day, if that to see how my body reacts, and even then no more than 15-20mg. nolva would follow for the pct.

i know the small amounts may not do much, but i dont want to do a complete cycle and greatly change my body or grow to fast or to big with the sides that come along with a normal cycle. like i said above my sex drive and a 5-10 lb gain is all i'm after.

i'm 160 lbs, 6' tall, and 33 years old. - if you saw me you'd guess my age at 24-25. tall and thin... 8% body fat.

yoyoma · #7 (**permalink**) 05-08-2009, 01:14 PM

thats good info, but i want to stay with only orals.

bigbench · #8 (**permalink**) 05-08-2009, 03:44 PM

If you are having a loss of libido, then you possibly might have an underlying issue going on. Also, to see real results from dbol or the like, you need to take enough to risk some sides. No risk- no reward. And just cause your taking a small amount that does NOT mean your not taking a cycle. It just means your taking a cycle that will not yeild real results.

yoyoma · #9 (**permalink**) 05-08-2009, 07:08 PM

good point! actually went to the doc today to have blood work done. asked him about test replacement and all he mentioned was a patch. guess we'll see what the numbers look like next week. also noticed he did not request free test on the form, i have seen people talk about free test...is that something that should have been included?

bigbench · #10 (**permalink**) 05-09-2009, 11:50 AM

He will if you test results come back normal. If you are in normal ranges of everything, (test/lh/FSH/estro) yet still feel fatigued, loss of libido, then they go into the different aspects such as free test, shbg, etc... If you have low total test, then obviously you will have low free test as well. Honestly, they should ALL be checked first time out and most docs will do some. Others, just test the basis first to see whats going on