Nolvadex best T-booster of the SERMS (Interesting Study)

[Reinheart]

Originally Posted by Conciliator

wraithgs asked if you could use nolva as a stand alone test booster. Why are you talking about PCT and benefit after a cycle? Also, in what sense will "the body get used to it eventually?"

Tamoxifen and clomid are very effective testosterone boosters. The problem is that they also lower IFG-1 and GH levels. The net effect on body composition is unknown, though my guess is that they have at least a mild positive effect.

Because the body gets used to everything you give it after a certain point. I have no scientific evidence that the body will get used to nolva, it's my personal opinion. All i said that i would rather save it for when i really need it.

[Bigkarch]

nolva for a cycle wont get you results...

[Conciliator]

Originally Posted by Bigkarch

nolva for a cycle wont get you results...

How do you know? Just your opinion apparently.

[Reinheart]

Originally Posted by Bigkarch

nolva for a cycle wont get you results...

It will just cut down circulating estrgogen and give the physique a harder look. I can't see how someone will gain on nolva only. I mean 3-4 pounds of muscle wouldn't be shocking since it increases test that much, but nothing worthy enough to fucking your hormonal profile.

[Conciliator]

Originally Posted by Reinheart

It will just cut down circulating estrgogen and give the physique a harder look.

Do you understand how tamoxifen works? It doesn't cut down on circulating estrogen. It's a SERM, not an AI. Its mechanism of action for muscle gain would be hypothalamic inhibition of estrogenic negative feedback, increasing natural testosterone levels with the concomitant anabolic effect.

Originally Posted by Reinheart

I can't see how someone will gain on nolva only.

You can't see how raising testosterone levels would increase gains?

Originally Posted by Reinheart

I mean 3-4 pounds of muscle wouldn't be shocking since it increases test that much

So you do see how it would increase gains. You just contradicted yourself.

Originally Posted by Reinheart

but nothing worthy enough to fucking your hormonal profile.

But does it "fuck your hormonal profile"? We're not talking about something like a cycle of AAS that will shut down natural testosterone production and cause testicular atrophy that takes months to recover from. We're talking about the opposite, boosting natural production with no shutdown and no need for PCT. Also, we're not cutting circulating estrogen levels as with in AI, we're antagonizing the estrogen receptor at the HPTA with a SERM, while at the same time getting the important benefits of estrogen agonism on blood lipids and possibly bone (the reason endocrinologists like Swale recommend a SERM during PCT over an AI). Nolva definitely messes with the hormonal milieu (notably decreasing GH and IFG-1), and that's something you have to weigh, but it's a much different matter than taking suppressive exogenous steroids.

[Bigkarch]

Originally Posted by Conciliator

How do you know? Just your opinion apparently.

prove me wrong

[Conciliator]

Originally Posted by Bigkarch

prove me wrong

You're committing a logical fallacy called an argument from ignorance. A lack of evidence against is not evidence for. You made the claim, so it's your burden to provide evidence for it. It's no one's burden to rebut it because there's no epistemological basis for presuming it to be the case.

Say I claim that leprechauns live underground on the moon. Someone calls me on it and asks for the evidence. I respond saying "prove me wrong, prove they don't exist." Hopefully you can see how poor of an argument that is. If you want to make the positive claim, it's your burden to back it up with evidence.

What you should have responded with is "Yeah, it's my opinion. I've been in the game for a long time and have seem a lot of guys use nolva during PCT. I have to admit I haven't seen anyone try to use it as a standalone in some controlled way during a time other than PCT, but still, I have a hunch it's not going to do much. I could be wrong though, as my anecdote is weak and this hasn't been looked at with a proper study."

[Reinheart]

Originally Posted by Conciliator

Do you understand how tamoxifen works? It doesn't cut down on circulating estrogen. It's a SERM, not an AI. Its mechanism of action for muscle gain would be hypothalamic inhibition of estrogenic negative feedback, increasing natural testosterone levels with the concomitant anabolic effect.
You can't see how raising testosterone levels would increase gains?
So you do see how it would increase gains. You just contradicted yourself.
But does it "fuck your hormonal profile"? We're not talking about something like a cycle of AAS that will shut down natural testosterone production and cause testicular atrophy that takes months to recover from. We're talking about the opposite, boosting natural production with no shutdown and no need for PCT. Also, we're not cutting circulating estrogen levels as with in AI, we're antagonizing the estrogen receptor at the HPTA with a SERM, while at the same time getting the important benefits of estrogen agonism on blood lipids and possibly bone (the reason endocrinologists like Swale recommend a SERM during PCT over an AI). Nolva definitely messes with the hormonal milieu (notably decreasing GH and IFG-1), and that's something you have to weigh, but it's a much different matter than taking suppressive exogenous steroids.

Yeah it does. It breaks the natural estrogen-testosterone balance, lowers overal estrogen and increases testosterone. All i said is that it's not worth to use it as a standalone because the actual benefits aren't woth it in my opinion.

My bad saying that it "cuts" circulating estrogen. Thanks for the notice.

Agreed with the bold lines!

Peace!

[Conciliator]

Originally Posted by Reinheart

Yeah it does. It breaks the natural estrogen-testosterone balance, lowers overal estrogen and increases testosterone. All i said is that it's not worth to use it as a standalone because the actual benefits aren't woth it in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Reinheart

My bad saying that it "cuts" circulating estrogen. Thanks for the notice.

You just said it again in this same post

[hoangtrang]

Hi there, Would a new one like me be welcome here?
Thanks so much in deed.
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