Ok Ok I Did My Research This Time!

[N.Smitty]

Well, as many of you well know, im not extremely informed on the subject of AAS, but in the time i was given, i read countless articles on numerous sites and listened to lots of advice from mods and posters on this site, as well as the "big guys" from my local gym. My decision is to listen to most of you and stay clear of AAS, just have a hardcore training schedule (many mentioned the 5x5) and a even more hardcore eating schedule. IMO, I did my research, and from the knowledge that i gained, whether its alot or a little, i came up with my own dieting plan along with my own workout plan with the help of others (similar to the 5x5). Now i may be wrong, which im sure some will think that, but this time i really did put effort into it and tried my hardest to realize and understand all the info. Stats: 6'0 (remeasured myself i was wrong before) 170 lbs, looking to gain lean muscle and cut down bf% around abs/obliques. I DONT WANT TO BE ANY HEAVIER THAN 185 lbs. So, In the next 2 posts, i have included :

3 sample days of the diet i created and plan to follow (as long as i continue to receive positive feedback from it, which so far, so good. We will soon see i guess)

Also posted is a 5 day workout plan, somewhat similar to the 5x5, but not exactly. I want to do a 4x6 program until i feel i can do the 5x5 program in it's entirety. And i gotta be honest, i dont do legs much so i dont wanna crash myself or push myself too hard so im startin out easier. Also, i had a "big guy" at the gym look at it (the 5x5 posted by bob smith) and he changed it up for me to make it 5 days a week. So maybe he is right, maybe not. But this is pretty much what i got so far.

Now, before you read them here are my own criticisms of each
Problems with the diet:
1. Need approx 20 25 g protein more per day?
2. Just a lil too many cals
3. Should i include another supplement (if so which one)
4. Deacon mentioned to me try creatine, but would creatine add water weight? i definatley dont want water weight for brazil
5. are my sodium and sugar level intakes high? couldnt find avg. amount a day

Problems with workout:
1. Maybe a little too much?
2. A more experienced and much bigger bodybuilder made up his own 5x5 for me. Opinions, criticisms?
3. Cardio or no cardio?

[N.Smitty]

lol i dont know how to attach a text document??? wtf!
Ok well here is the basics of my diet:
Times where ill be eating will be 8 am, 10 30, preworkout(10-12) post workout, 6pm, and 9 pm
Whey Protein shakes will be taken at 8 am, postworkout, and 9 pm
and the stats of each diet

Day1 =
calories - 1945
fat - 22g
Sodium - 1835 mg
carbs - 220 g
fiber - 27 g
sugars - 80 g
protein- 219.5 g

Day 2 =
calories - 2057
fat -30 g
sodium - 1167 mg
carbs - 220 g
fiber - 27 g
sugars - 82 g
protein - 223 g

Day 3 =
calories - 2106
fat - 15.25 g
sodium - 3329 mg
carbs - 269.5 g
fiber - 19 g
sugars - 144 g
protein - 244g

Everyday i am taking in good carbs (wheat noodles) and healthy protein (chicken, egg whites, fish) along with fruits and veggies! and questions about my diet ask please! Research done at: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/ http://www.nutritiondata.com/index.html (ty dce2956) http://www.steroid.com http://www.steroidbiology.com

[N.Smitty]

Training Program

Monday
Þ Squats 4x6 (Excluding warm up)
o Increasing weight each set as long as 6 reps are completed with good form
o Increasing weight 5-10lbs for each set every week as needed
Þ Calf Raises 5x5
Þ Flat Bench Press 4x6
o Increasing weight each set as long as 6 reps are completed with good form
o Increasing weight 5-10lbs for each set every week as needed
Þ Incline Dumbbell Flies 4x6
Þ Abs/Oblique Routine (Approx 15-20 min)

Tuesday
Þ Barbell Rows 4x6
o Increasing weight each set as long as 6 reps are completed with good form
o Increasing weight for each set every week as needed
Þ Wide Grip Lat Pull Downs 4x6
o Increasing weight each set as long as 6 reps are completed with good form
o Increasing weight 5-10lbs for each set every week as needed
Þ Chins 3x10
o If 3 sets of 10 reps completed with good form, begin to add appropriate weight to make routine more challenging
Þ Straight Barbell Curl 4x6
o Increasing weight each set as long as 6 reps are completed with good form
o Increasing weight 5-10lbs for each set every week as needed

Wednesday
Þ Dead Lifts 3x7 (Until body is used to new exercise)
o Keeping same weight, not light, but not a complete struggle, until form is good enough to move on
Þ Lunges
o 2x6 w/BB
o 2x6 w/DB
Þ Abs/Oblique Routine (Approx 15-20 min)

Thursday
Þ Barbell Military Press 4x6 (Excluding Warm-Up)
o Increasing weight each set as long as 6 reps are completed with good form
o Increasing weight 5-10lbs for each set every week as needed
Þ Dumbbell Military Press 3x6
o Increasing weight each set as long as 6 reps are completed with good form
o Increasing weight 5-10lbs for each set every week as needed
Þ Barbell Shrugs 3x5 (Supersetted with 10 barbell reps after each set is complete)
o Increasing weight each set as long as 6 reps are completed with good form
o Increasing weight 5-10lbs for each set every week as needed
Þ Triceps Dips 3x10
o If 3 sets of 10 reps completed with good form, begin to add appropriate weight to make routine more challenging

Friday
Þ Incline Bench Press 4x6
o Increasing weight each set as long as 6 reps are completed with good form
o Increasing weight 5-10lbs for each set every week as needed
Þ Flat Dumbbell Flies 2x6
Þ Decline Dumbbell Flies 2x6
Þ Row Machine 4x6
o Increasing weight each set as long as 6 reps are completed with good form
o Increasing weight 5-10lbs for each set every week as needed
Þ Wide Grip Lat Pull Downs 4x6
o Increasing weight each set as long as 6 reps are completed with good form
o Increasing weight 5-10lbs for each set every week as needed
Þ Abs/Oblique Routine (Approx 15-20 min)

the (o)'s under the funny looking character mean thats part of that specific exercise! Sorry if im confusing, i greatly greatly greatly appreciate any advice ty!!!!!

[Deacon]

all I can say is that it took me 27 years of training to figure out eating. training and supplements for what works for me - you have what 10 weeks? Good luck

[N.Smitty]

i kno its a challenge, but as far as my diet and workout, what are your likes/dislikes deacon?

[N V ME]

Work out seem like a lot and intense for 5 days a week routine. I would rather have you do either m-w-f weights, tue-thr-sat cardio. Alternating two workouts.
workout 1
arms delts legs
workout 2
chest back calves

using basic exercises and 8-12 reps to positive failure on your last set or 2. I personally dont use more then 2 exercises per bodypart at most, depends on what works for you. IMO creatine would be helpful and I doubt you will get a whole lot of noticeable bloat. Using a good fatburner will help as well.

[Bob Smith]

Originally Posted by N.Smitty

i kno its a challenge, but as far as my diet and workout, what are your likes/dislikes deacon?

If that 5 day program is what the "big guy" suggested to you as a "modification" to the 5x5, then...how can I put this nicely....he is a complete moron. Its NOTHING like a 5x5 program in any way shape or form. Its a typical retarded bodybuilding program. You squat once a week, you have all sorts of small, foo-foo movements...you....ugh...that program sucks, dude. I simply dont know how else to say it.

Also, why on Gods green earth would you ever do 15-20 minutes of ab work?? I can do abs in 4-5 minutes, tops. Twice a week. And still end up with the same, or better, results than the 15-20 minute routine you listed.

Another question, what makes 4x6 so much different than 5x5?

[N.Smitty]

Originally Posted by N V ME

Work out seem like a lot and intense for 5 days a week routine. I would rather have you do either m-w-f weights, tue-thr-sat cardio.
using basic exercises and 8-12 reps to positive failure on your last set or 2.

ok, that seems like an extreme cutting routine and im not trying to cut that much, just shed a like 2 % bf while adding lean muscle.

Originally Posted by Bob Smith

If that 5 day program is what the "big guy" suggested to you as a "modification" to the 5x5, then...how can I put this nicely....he is a complete moron. Its NOTHING like a 5x5 program in any way shape or form. Its a typical retarded bodybuilding program. You squat once a week, you have all sorts of small, foo-foo movements...you....ugh...that program sucks, dude. I simply dont know how else to say it.

Also, why on Gods green earth would you ever do 15-20 minutes of ab work?? I can do abs in 4-5 minutes, tops. Twice a week. And still end up with the same, or better, results than the 15-20 minute routine you listed.

Another question, what makes 4x6 so much different than 5x5?

well, it was his way of modifying it to my "schedule" i do want a 5 day a week program and he quote unquote "made it happen" as he said. ive researched but havnt found many 5 day routines, i mostly found strength training routines and personally i can care less about strength, im in it for appearance (ya i kno its gay but im young lol) what is your ab routine? mine consists of 3 sets of 12 of upside-down crunches, 4 sets of 8 seated crunches with the legs crunching also, and approx 300 crunches/sit ups im very concerned with abs and would really like to know what your routine is. and lastly i did 5x5 in the gym majority of this past week and it was intense as hell, i want to warm up to it by doin 4x6 nearly the same thing, but less intense IMO. What about the diet? i knew the training would be ripped apart but i think my diet is up to parr, once again IMO! and lastly ty for reading such a long post! i appreciate it

[Bob Smith]

Originally Posted by N.Smitty

well, it was his way of modifying it to my "schedule"

It doesnt resemble a 5x5 program in any way.

i do want a 5 day a week program

Why?

and he quote unquote "made it happen" as he said.

I guess it all depends on how you define "made it happen."

what is your ab routine?

2-3 sets of 5-8 reps with weighted crunches. 5 minutes, tops, and done.

mine consists of 3 sets of 12 of upside-down crunches, 4 sets of 8 seated crunches with the legs crunching also, and approx 300 crunches/sit

My abs just cramped up reading all that. You are doing about 350 reps too many.

im very concerned with abs and would really like to know what your routine is.

Working your abs has absolutely nothing to do with whether you have a six-pack. Quit being a fatty and your abs will show. Its all about diet and virtually nothing to do with the number of crunches you do.

and lastly i did 5x5 in the gym majority of this past week and it was intense as hell, i want to warm up to it by doin

Go back and reread the 5x5 threads. It specifically says to take a good 3-4 weeks of 5x5 to prepare yourself for really pushing 5x5 hard.

What about the diet? i knew the training would be ripped apart but i think my diet is up to parr,

It looks ok, but the calorie level is too high if you are wanting to shed some fat. Or unless you work construction and are very physically active all day. I would cut your protein back to about 175-200g, and your carbs I would drop to 100-150 grams.

Also, whats the 80g of sugar thats listed every day?

[N V ME]

your diet makes a cutting or bulking happen more then the routine, unless your doing circuit training or more than 15 reps.

[hendrixsolo]

I just wanted to raise my hand and agree that the bodybuilding guy you were talking to at the gym is a little retarded.

You're a novice lifter, right? Your body win't respond to working out 5 times a week as well as it will 3 times.

You seem ambitious, just follow the 5x5 program, listen to bob and lift intense...you can get to 185 naturally in 10 weeks if you're a novice lifter, I've seen it done.

Keep that goal in mind, go after it man. Follow the advice we give. Seriously.

[N.Smitty]

Originally Posted by hendrixsolo

You're a novice lifter, right? Your body win't respond to working out 5 times a week as well as it will 3 times.

You seem ambitious, just follow the 5x5 program, listen to bob and lift intense...you can get to 185 naturally in 10 weeks if you're a novice lifter, I've seen it done.

Keep that goal in mind, go after it man. Follow the advice we give. Seriously.

This is to bob too:
Ok IMO, and i reallllly cant stress that enough but, IMO im not a novice lifter in the gym. maybe i have lack of knowlege but not a novice. Now before you jump down my throat, i have been training for a while now, not no off n on bs (well i did take 1 summer off in about 3 yrs), and i have been training 5 days a week since i began lifting so im just use to it. i have tried 3 days a week program and haaaaaaaaaated it cuz it just didnt seem as if it was for me. The reason why im not bigger or whatever is for the simlpe reason that while i was always training, i ate taco bell every day, didnt care what i ate i ate it and at all times of the day/night, and got approx 3 hrs a sleep a night, and drank/partied way too much (im a college student with 2 jobs and maintain a 4.0 gpa, you do the math with how im pressed for time as is) Now i'm eating right getting about eh 7-8 hrs a night of good sleep so im expecting improvements

Originally Posted by Bob Smith

Working your abs has absolutely nothing to do with whether you have a six-pack. Quit being a fatty and your abs will show. Its all about diet and virtually nothing to do with the number of crunches you do.

Never heard that, but interesting. that kind of sounds like:\

Originally Posted by N V ME

your diet makes a cutting or bulking happen more then the routine, unless your doing circuit training or more than 15 reps.

N V ME, not to insult your intelligence in any way at all and i appreciate your input but, anyone second that and the training routine he posted?

Originally Posted by Bob Smith

It looks ok, but the calorie level is too high if you are wanting to shed some fat. Or unless you work construction and are very physically active all day. I would cut your protein back to about 175-200g, and your carbs I would drop to 100-150 grams.

Also, whats the 80g of sugar thats listed every day?

K, knew the cals where too high. had thoughts about high intakes of protein/carbs too. i actually want to post the file or a link tothe file of my actual diet so u can see every aspect of it and i cant type it cuz it will be too confusing, i got in a spreadsheet on microsoft word. anyone know how i can post it?
And lastly, still havn't gotten any input on creatine/adding another supplement? TY ALL!!!!

[hendrixsolo]

How much can you bench press? deadlift? squat? Knowing these numbers might shed some light on what program will be best for you so let us know...

NVME is right about the diet. I don't know about his training program, but getting to the shape you want is about 70% diet 30% exercise.

[N.Smitty]

[quote=hendrixsolo]How much can you bench press? deadlift? squat? Knowing these numbers might shed some light on what program will be best for you so let us know...[quote=hendrixsolo]

Its been a while since i maxed out, not real long, but i would have to say my max benching is about 190, deadlift i couldnt tell you, i havnt deadlifted since my gym class sophmore year, and squat is about 240. Strength is the least if my worries though, im not one of those guys thats goes to the gym and throws on weight he cant do and tries to do the exercise with bad form, i do what i do and if u dont like it, tough! is kinda my attitude. im more concerned with physical appearance than strength. ok i had to edit and add this part....lmao but (o this is pathetic) when i started lifting freshman year, haha, my max bench was the olympic bar, 45 lbs...needless to say i was horribly embarassed...so i have gained alot of strength and size siince then. from 45 lbs to 190 isnt so bad if ya ask me lol...

[hendrixsolo]

The reason I asked is because I was making sure that you're still a novice. Even if you have lifted for a few years, it doesn't make you a veteran by any means.

If you're benching around 200 and you only weigh 160, that's pretty good, and probably better than average...but nowhere near experienced.

If you want to gain size you MUST push yourself. If you don't care much about increasing the weight, then you won't be pushing hard enough to gain size.

Even the 5x5 system won't produce results if you aren't working hard.

Focus on getting your bench press to 215 and up your squats by 40lbs in the next 10 weeks, and if you reach that point you will probably have surpassed your physical appearance goals.

If you really want to gain, it's essental that you keep a log of your work outs so you can keep track of progress. Eventually it will help you figure out when to bump up in weight and how hard you can push yourself.

I know you said you don't care about strength, but until you get some strength gains, you're going to be maxed out in size and appearance.