PCt for 4 1/2 month cycle

[neworleansgt]

Okay heres the short of the long. I planned on a nice 10 week cycle of andropen 275 and winstrol. around week 7 there was a huge bust and all my shit was taken including PCT. I decided to continue on cycle instead of going off cold turkey. I couldnt get any pct, but I managed to get 200mg of test e. a week. I am now in, im not even sure what week by now, around 4 and 1/2 months. So, since week 7 or so I went from 550mg of andropen a week to 2oomg of test e. a week till now. Ive finally been able to get together the shit I need for PCT(its harder then u think when the cops are watchin ya) ANyway, this is what ive got. Clen, hcg, nolva, clomid, anavar, provorion, Anastrozole (the A.I.) My main concern ia not lossing my strength due to my line of work. I understand that anavar and provorion might slow my recovery, but I also know that they should insure that my strength gains and dick works through out (at least help) my pct. I thought about taking either 15mg or 30mg of var every morning to coincided with my natural test spike. Anyone with CONSTRUCTIVE, YES CONSTRUCTIVE criticism please help me here. Im hoping someone with prior experience will help me out here. Thanks a million.
P.S. Im not trying to bridge into another cyle. Once all is said and done I dont plan on touching aas for atleat 6 months

P.P.S. If there are any drugs that should be left out or added in Im all ears and will listen to your advice, otherwise I wouldnt be asking

thanks a million

[van-man]

read this!
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...le-therapy.htm

This is the procedure I swear by; however, in your case (really, really long cycle), I would suggest doing 500iu's on Mon, Wed, Fri a couple of weeks before you come off the test. This I think should give your testies a head start on recovery, because they will be severly atrophied by this time. Also, I think you should also start 10mg per day of Nolvadex right now, and then move to what Anthony Roberts says when you start your PCT.
I don't think much of Clomid, its never helped me much.
But, I'm not a doc and I didn't stay at a holiday inn express last night; just a guy who has had great struggles with finding an effective PCT.

From my experience I can tell you two things: 1. You've got to stop that estrogen during your PCT! That is the reason for Nolvadex and Aromasin, and no you can not substitute for the Aromasin with extra Nolva or clomid. If you can't find Aromasin cheap enough or easily enough, AG guys sells it and Nolvadex cheap. Haven't tried their stuff yet but, other members say its good.
And 2. make sure as you can that your testies are fully up and running before you come off the HCG, but also take care so as to not over stimulate them because then they will not respond to the LH you have been stimulating with the Nolvadex.

You will hear lots of different recommendations as far as HCG dosing; but all I can tell you is that everyone is truly different, and what is not too much for one maybe vastly too much for another. You just have to know your body, and be safe.

good luck,
Van

[gixxerboy]

if your taking var then you are still on. Its going to keep you shut down.

[unt0ld]

Originally Posted by gixxerboy

if your taking var then you are still on. Its going to keep you shut down.

What about low dose var say 10mg/day?

[gixxerboy]

I seen debates both ways. Even people saying 15mg of dbol first thing in the morning ok. The argument that it keeps you more suppressed made more sense to me.

[van-man]

Its my understanding that anything that represents testosterone at any level of aromatization (DHT, Estrogen, or otherwise) will affect natural testosterone production/levels. Therefore, it is ok to have residual AAS in your system while using HCG and so forth, but once you stop boosting your natural production you need to have a clean system or it will only stall out again. By "clean" I don't mean pass a piss test, I mean absence of relevant levels of AAS.

Again, this is why estrogen suppression is so important in PCT because, we already have too much from the cycle itself and all of our methods of boosting natural T, which is already low, will boost estrogen production as well. So, we must inhibit the body's ability to recieve it so as to refreain from triggering the negative feedback loop begun in the hypothalamus.

once more, I'm not a doc. Just an asshole who learns the hard way.

[ForemanRules]

Originally Posted by neworleansgt

Okay heres the short of the long. I planned on a nice 10 week cycle of andropen 275 and winstrol. around week 7 there was a huge bust and all my shit was taken including PCT. I decided to continue on cycle instead of going off cold turkey. I couldnt get any pct, but I managed to get 200mg of test e. a week. I am now in, im not even sure what week by now, around 4 and 1/2 months. So, since week 7 or so I went from 550mg of andropen a week to 2oomg of test e. a week till now. Ive finally been able to get together the shit I need for PCT(its harder then u think when the cops are watchin ya) ANyway, this is what ive got. Clen, hcg, nolva, clomid, anavar, provorion, Anastrozole (the A.I.) My main concern ia not lossing my strength due to my line of work. I understand that anavar and provorion might slow my recovery, but I also know that they should insure that my strength gains and dick works through out (at least help) my pct. I thought about taking either 15mg or 30mg of var every morning to coincided with my natural test spike. Anyone with CONSTRUCTIVE, YES CONSTRUCTIVE criticism please help me here. Im hoping someone with prior experience will help me out here. Thanks a million.
P.S. Im not trying to bridge into another cyle. Once all is said and done I dont plan on touching aas for atleat 6 months

P.P.S. If there are any drugs that should be left out or added in Im all ears and will listen to your advice, otherwise I wouldnt be asking

thanks a million

#1 that cycle sucks big time
#2 I hope you are 250+ at 10% BF or less and benching 500lbs raw and squating 700+ raw to do such a worthless/stupid cycle.
#3 stop using now!!!!


Glad I could help

[Conciliator]

Originally Posted by van-man

read this!
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...le-therapy.htm

This is the procedure I swear by; however, in your case (really, really long cycle), I would suggest doing 500iu's on Mon, Wed, Fri a couple of weeks before you come off the test. This I think should give your testies a head start on recovery, because they will be severly atrophied by this time. Also, I think you should also start 10mg per day of Nolvadex right now, and then move to what Anthony Roberts says when you start your PCT.
I don't think much of Clomid, its never helped me much.
But, I'm not a doc and I didn't stay at a holiday inn express last night; just a guy who has had great struggles with finding an effective PCT.

From my experience I can tell you two things: 1. You've got to stop that estrogen during your PCT! That is the reason for Nolvadex and Aromasin, and no you can not substitute for the Aromasin with extra Nolva or clomid. If you can't find Aromasin cheap enough or easily enough, AG guys sells it and Nolvadex cheap. Haven't tried their stuff yet but, other members say its good.
And 2. make sure as you can that your testies are fully up and running before you come off the HCG, but also take care so as to not over stimulate them because then they will not respond to the LH you have been stimulating with the Nolvadex.

You will hear lots of different recommendations as far as HCG dosing; but all I can tell you is that everyone is truly different, and what is not too much for one maybe vastly too much for another. You just have to know your body, and be safe.

good luck,
Van

This sounds way too much like AR to me. Hi Anthony.

1) Anthony Roberts is a moron. He gives ridiculously stupid advice, like running clen for several months, or taking tren if you want minimal androgenic side effects, or giving injectible winny to females. He loves to extrapolate animal data to humans. Look up the references he gives in his articles and it only takes 5 minutes to see this. For example, all the horse data in his article on clen, or references to studies on the retina of rabbits in his article on DNP. This has nothing to do with humans and Roberts is too stupid to see why. I'd stay as far away from him as you can. There's a reason no one here likes him, except for this new van-man character who seems to love him and AG Guys.

2) AG Guys is not cheap. They have exorbitant prices relative to what they pay to make the stuff they sell. IBE is overpriced as it is, and they're the cheapest around.

My advice... if you really want your HPTA to recover, drop the var, start the hCG immediately, and start running a SERM 2 weeks after you go off. You don't need any finasteride or aromasin or whatever else van-man is solicting. If you think you need an AI in addition to the SERM (which I don't), then you'd be just fine with your adex.

[van-man]

You're an ass dude!
I've been into bodybuilding for 5 yrs now, and cycling for the past two. I've been plagued by difficulty in PC treatment, and Anthony Roberts is the first guy to have a recommendation that actually worked for me. I don't know the guy, and don't really care if he's a nice guy or not; as long as he keeps making recommendations that work for me then I'll keep telling people about him. About your chiding on Roberts choice of references, find me a clinical trial anywhere that doesn't borrow from studies done in lab rats. You stupid fuck, how the hell do you think any medication gets approved for use in humans? Through animals! Besides, if you had read the article you would see that your recommendation is little more than a crude and unsophisticated version of what Roberts recommends.
As far as AG guys is concerned, I've never used 'em but there seems to be a fair majority of users on this board that have been satisfied with the results of AG products. And, if you've ever checked the patents or the prices on Aromasin then you would know how expensive it is. Especially when compared to the price of AG Guys.
Oh yeah... in capitalistic societies such as this one, it's none of your goddam business how much money a company spends to make its product in relation to how much they sell it for.

I'm all about difference of opinion; thats the fuel that drives creativity and inspiration. But when BF's like you want to drag other peoples ideas through the mud in an attempt to build yours up with that macho "I ain't got time to bleed attitude", then your just endangering the health of others.

[gobus]

Originally Posted by van-man

You're an ass dude!
I've been into bodybuilding for 5 yrs now, and cycling for the past two. I've been plagued by difficulty in PC treatment, and Anthony Roberts is the first guy to have a recommendation that actually worked for me. I don't know the guy, and don't really care if he's a nice guy or not; as long as he keeps making recommendations that work for me then I'll keep telling people about him. About your chiding on Roberts choice of references, find me a clinical trial anywhere that doesn't borrow from studies done in lab rats. You stupid fuck, how the hell do you think any medication gets approved for use in humans? Through animals! Besides, if you had read the article you would see that your recommendation is little more than a crude and unsophisticated version of what Roberts recommends.
As far as AG guys is concerned, I've never used 'em but there seems to be a fair majority of users on this board that have been satisfied with the results of AG products. And, if you've ever checked the patents or the prices on Aromasin then you would know how expensive it is. Especially when compared to the price of AG Guys.
Oh yeah... in capitalistic societies such as this one, it's none of your goddam business how much money a company spends to make its product in relation to how much they sell it for.

I'm all about difference of opinion; thats the fuel that drives creativity and inspiration. But when BF's like you want to drag other peoples ideas through the mud in an attempt to build yours up with that macho "I ain't got time to bleed attitude", then your just endangering the health of others.

Oh, then I'm sure you're aware of the numerous side effects of casual finasteride usage, i.e., PERMANENT HPTA SHUTDOWN.

http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/

I'm also sure you're aware that MOST of the time animal studies don't mean shit in humans, and pharm companies know this which is why maybe out of 10,000 drugs work in rats, only 1 will work in a human being. Not to mention that you can't even extrapolate data from a diseased population of HUMANS to non-pathologic humans.

Remember BAT(brown adipose tissue) fat burners that were gonna be the new shit that companies were pimping, claiming that it burned assloads of fat in rats? Only problem is that humans don't have BAT(relatively speaking) so it doesn't work.

But you keep on taking HCG for your thyroid and giving winny to women, I'm sure it'll work out wonderfully. Don't forget to take your finasteride too, for you pre-PCT or whatever stupid shit he was spouting off. Oh yeah, Tren doesn't cause your hair to fall out according to AR, so do that to. Don't listen to the thousands of people who claim hair loss with Tren. They're lying, making you doubt your faith in the one true AR.

[van-man]

who ever said anything about finasteride? certianly not me. In fact, I can show you studies that show finasteride to be ineffective at its intended purpose, hair regrowth. Unlike Avodart.
As for HCG to restart thyroid, I don't know what the hell your talking about! I've never even heard of such a proposterous idea!
And, with regard to your BAT example; anyone who buys into a study that is intrinsicly flawed, such as the one you've just mentioned, which I've never heard of, then their problem is not the use of the study, but rather their capacity for logic and reason.

That was a great red herring though. better luck next time.

[gobus]

Originally Posted by van-man

who ever said anything about finasteride? certianly not me. In fact, I can show you studies that show finasteride to be ineffective at its intended purpose, hair regrowth. Unlike Avodart.
As for HCG to restart thyroid, I don't know what the hell your talking about! I've never even heard of such a proposterous idea!
And, with regard to your BAT example; anyone who buys into a study that is intrinsicly flawed, such as the one you've just mentioned, which I've never heard of, then their problem is not the use of the study, but rather their capacity for logic and reason.

That was a great red herring though. better luck next time.

I posted that assuming either that you're a big fan of AR or you are AR himself. Either way, AR is the one who proposed HCG for thyroid and finasteride for pre-PCT and winny for women. That should show you that he doesn't know shit about anything and can't be followed. But you go ahead and ride his jock some more, I'm sure his advice will work out well for you.