Planning it out, some suggestions/improvements?

[LifeSize]

Cycle:
Week 1-04, Dbol, 30mg/ED
Week 1-12, Test-E, 500mg/EW
Week 1-12, HCG, 500iu/EW

PCT:
Week 13 & 14, HCG, 1500iu/EW (500iu, 3x's)
Week 15 & 16, Nolva, 40mg/ED
Week 17-20, Nolva, 20mg/ED
Week 21 Nolva, 10mg/ED

This is what I have planned. Thing is the sides/risks of orals has me reconsidering the Dbol. Maybe front load with Prop instead? Is there something else I can use to front load? I really want to maximize my first cycle, but at the same time not over do it with compounds. I'm not afraid of needles, and probably won't even be doing the injections to myself very often - unless I have to. I'm also interested in EQ, not sure if I should since it's the first cycle. If I do I would cut out the Dbol - running the EQ at 600mg the first two weeks, and then down to 400 the next 10wks. Thoughts?

Also I had gyno when I was in my early teens (14), it was removed and I've never had a problem since (currently 26). I'm still currently dieting, and won't be done till late Feb - PSMF'ing. I will probably start the cycle and still be in the low-mid-teens BF%. I don't mind not being ripped, my short term goal is size so a little fat layer will help with the look. Should I add anything, and at what regiment?

Trying to get it all planned, and gear in my hands by mid-feb..

Thanks bros!

[bigbench]

Yea, man, that looks pretty solid. Its always better to start out with the smallest amount and work your way up. EQ is a very affective tool, but maybe wait til the second or even third cycle for that. And the dbol will be fine. At the lower dose you have it at and the short duration of time you will use it, you will not see any adverse effects. What you have is a very soild stack there but it will all come down to your diet. You want to make sure to eat a sufficiant amount of carbs and protien to make what your taking fullly affective!

[LifeSize]

Originally Posted by bigbench

Yea, man, that looks pretty solid. Its always better to start out with the smallest amount and work your way up. EQ is a very affective tool, but maybe wait til the second or even third cycle for that. And the dbol will be fine. At the lower dose you have it at and the short duration of time you will use it, you will not see any adverse effects. What you have is a very soild stack there but it will all come down to your diet. You want to make sure to eat a sufficiant amount of carbs and protien to make what your taking fullly affective!

I'll be PSMFing to drop more fat rapidly before the cycle starts, I'm doing full body workouts 3x week. I don't plan to low-carb during my cycle. A little bloat don't hurt :P The diet will be 10g of Fish Oil, 250g of Prot, and 100g of carbs.. around that. I'll probably be bumping my cals up by 5-10% every week or two.. Anyone do this?

[chewiechomp]

Looks like a tasty cycle. If it's your first, you may want to do just a touch less. My first cycle was 375mg Test E per week for 8 weeks. (Go 10 weeks if you want.) I kickstarted it with 20mg dbol for the first 4 weeks.

My cycle was perfect. Couldn't be happier. I gained about 16 lbs and kept most of it. IMO the 20mg dosage of dbol was a perfect starter. I was worried that I would need more, but didn't.

Also, since you may be prone to gyno, you may want to consider a very low dose of arimidex or other anti-e while on. I think lowering the 500mg slightly would be a good idea too. See how your body reacts this first time. If your diet and training are in check, you will grow like a weed on 375mg. Tits look best on women.

Also, I know the hCG discussion is occurring elsewhere, but I had some on hand for my first cycle and was planning on using it throughout, but found that things didn't atrophy too bad. You may want see if it's needed before using it. If you do it on cycle, wait till at least week 3. Keep in mind too that hCG can cause gyno (through its action) so if you are prone, be careful.

Enjoy bro - keep us posted.

[bigbench]

What is your body weight? ANd are you going for strictly size or just trying to gain a little lean mass? That can be a big decision in what your diet will look like. If you are going for as much size as possible, then you will want to up the carbs a bit. And try for a minimum of 3000-3500 cals and work your way up til you see the results you want. And like chewie said, you might not need the HCG and keep the nolva by just in case

[LifeSize]

26, 5'11 @ 215lbs, I'd guess 20% bf. I'll probably be 14-15% at about 185-190lbs, guesstimate.

My goal right now is mass, I want to be big all over. Emphasis on my upper body since my lower body is pretty advanced to my upper half.

My ultimate goal is to bounce around 230lbs at 10% (or close to, around, etc..) I'm not in it for competition, just self gratification. I don't really plan to do more than a few cycles - maybe 4 in 2-3years total. I may dabble again when I'm an old fart (mid 30's)..

The only thing that bothers me right now is my love handles. They are big to me, everyone says no that I'm just a little chubby. My arms are vascular, my legs and arms are lean, but I keep that extra poundage in the lower mid section. Figure hardcore diet, put on some quality lean mass, even if it means some extra fat again. Once the body finishes recomposition I should be able take more fat off due to the increase in muscle...in theory.

I think my fat stats are off.. I can't really see myself looking not really ripped at 195. So dropping to the 180's is unrealistic for me.. So we'll see..

[bigbench]

Well, the thing about losing fat and being ripped at 195 and not getting into the mid 180's, you have to remember, as much as your eating protein to preserve it, you ARE burning muscle. So yes, in theory if you lost nothing but fat, you would probably be pretty ripped. But your not just losing fat. Also, you have water weight. A lot of body builders lose as much as ten to fifteen pounds of water. Now, a normal person wont be that drastic, but cutting back on sodium, keepnig dairy products out eating steamed green vegies will help with water weight (along with drinking plenty of water). But, losing the fat now, will help to make your body more suseptable to building muscle rather than storing fat so when you start to gain, it will be more of a lean look. If you go for a lean gain and dont gain any body fat, then with the extra muscle on your frame your lean body to fat ratio shifts and your bf percentage goes down. But if you want all out mass, then you will need to bump your carbs up a bit. Carbs are almost as important to build muscle.

[southbond]

I wouldn't even run the HCG.. But its good to have on hand..

[dennis]

Tell you what i would do if it were my first cycle..given your history with gyno..drop the dbol..use prop 75 mgs eod for first 2 weeks..this will give you some good practice on injects...
use 350-400 mgs test enth or cyp the rest of the cycle.Get adex before you start,use the hcg.You said something about a full body work out 3x per week..this will not work if you really want to grow some size..change your routine.The love handles will go away when you increase cardio and decrease bad carbs.

[Porthos]

yep great cycle --- I don't think you need to run with the HCG either but it doesn't hurt to have it on hand....

I did that exact same cycle cept I used sust instead of test-e and I gained 24 pounds in 8 weeks. Fucking awsome for a first cycle and the nolv is great for pct as well...


eat big and train hard and get plenty of sleep and you will grow like a mofo...

only word of caution is that it will take 5-6 weeks for the test-e to start kicking in, so don't get discouraged.... dbol will be a good kickstart though

[LifeSize]

Originally Posted by dennis

Tell you what i would do if it were my first cycle..given your history with gyno..drop the dbol..use prop 75 mgs eod for first 2 weeks..this will give you some good practice on injects...
use 350-400 mgs test enth or cyp the rest of the cycle.Get adex before you start,use the hcg.You said something about a full body work out 3x per week..this will not work if you really want to grow some size..change your routine.The love handles will go away when you increase cardio and decrease bad carbs.

To clarify, would I be using both the Prop and Enth/Cyp the first two weeks? Or the fast acting Prop is all to load? Should I skip HCG these first two weeks?

The full body routine will be now, before I start the cycle. I'm going to do a 4 week long PSMF to drop some more fat before I start the cycle. I won't have my feelings hurt if I gain some fat during the cycle, I'll worry about trimming down when ive fully recovered after my PCT. During the cycle I'm going to do a 12 day rotational program, I'll probably be hitting it twice a day depending on the body parts and how I feel..

Should I grab both, some Letrozole and Arimidex? Should I change my Nolva because I'm adding either?

Your the Boss bro, appreciate the advice.

[dennis]

Originally Posted by LifeSize

To clarify, would I be using both the Prop and Enth/Cyp the first two weeks? Or the fast acting Prop is all to load? Should I skip HCG these first two weeks?

The full body routine will be now, before I start the cycle. I'm going to do a 4 week long PSMF to drop some more fat before I start the cycle. I won't have my feelings hurt if I gain some fat during the cycle, I'll worry about trimming down when ive fully recovered after my PCT. During the cycle I'm going to do a 12 day rotational program, I'll probably be hitting it twice a day depending on the body parts and how I feel..

Should I grab both, some Letrozole and Arimidex? Should I change my Nolva because I'm adding either?

Your the Boss bro, appreciate the advice.

yes you use prop and enth at the same time;example
weeks 1-2 test prop eod 75 mgs
weeks 1-12 test enth 500 mgs ew
I would not use prop and dbol at the same time though..use one or the other.prop gives you quick strenght and some keepable size..dbol gives you quick strength and added water weight that you lose after you stop it.The 12 day rotation I studied before but would never recomend 2x per day..the rotation should be set as so the muscle group you just worked has plenty of recoop time before you hit it again.If you want to train 2x per day you could do weights in the afternoon and cardio in the morning..not so much cardio though that you do not gain weight..a delicate balance for sure.the adex alone should be enough..you could take .5 mgs eod during entire cycle just to be safe.the nolva stays the same..you use it for pct..4-6 weeks..I strongly urge you to use the hcg.Also i would never give anyone any advice unless I had personal experience with it myself..hypothetically..

[bigbench]

Damn Dennis, I had basically all of that written out already and RIGHT when I go to post, I see you beat me! lol

[LifeSize]

Originally Posted by dennis

yes you use prop and enth at the same time;example
weeks 1-2 test prop eod 75 mgs
weeks 1-12 test enth 500 mgs ew
I would not use prop and dbol at the same time though..use one or the other.prop gives you quick strenght and some keepable size..dbol gives you quick strength and added water weight that you lose after you stop it.The 12 day rotation I studied before but would never recomend 2x per day..the rotation should be set as so the muscle group you just worked has plenty of recoop time before you hit it again.If you want to train 2x per day you could do weights in the afternoon and cardio in the morning..not so much cardio though that you do not gain weight..a delicate balance for sure.the adex alone should be enough..you could take .5 mgs eod during entire cycle just to be safe.the nolva stays the same..you use it for pct..4-6 weeks..I strongly urge you to use the hcg.Also i would never give anyone any advice unless I had personal experience with it myself..hypothetically..

Yea I scratched the Dbol when you suggested Prop - I'd rather not fuck with orals anyhow, safe or not. HCG is a for sure thing from week 01-14. I'm going to keep my cardio to the bare minimum, I'm firm in believing diet and proper weight training work better than running like a mouse in a wheel for fat loss..I think it would be beneficial to my cardiovascular system though. What do you think, a moderate jog for 20min in the morning on the days I lift? 4 days on, 1 day off.

If I start the Adex on day 1 of week 1, would I take it to week 12, or 14? Week 12 would be my last Test shot, and also my last week injecting only 500iu of HCG. I planned to bump the HCG to 1500iu on weeks 13 and 14. Then I'd start Nolva on week 15.

I know where you come from in regards to the advice given, I've been here a while and always appreciate your advice and humbleness to learn more. Thanks bro.

I attached what I have so far..

[chewiechomp]

Very nice bro. Excellent planning - love the spreadsheet.

Tho I don't see any use for hCG in the first few weeks.

Good luck & def. keep us posted on your results.