Steroid Forum: This is a discussion on Proviron within the Anabolic Steroids forums, part of the extensive steroid information at MESO-Rx; What does eveyone think about Proviron ? Is it a necessary part of cycles with high aromatization?...
What does eveyone think about Proviron? Is it a necessary part of cycles with high aromatization?
Not necessary, but nice. Supports the action of other andros, stimulates sexual feelings, as well as resists aromatization (but not to the extent of anti-estros like a-dex.)
My contribution,http://www.eurobolic.com/index.php?main_page=proviron
Sorry I did'nt include any personal ramblings or tips from experiance,because I have'nt used it.Looks like it stops aromitisation and is not a estrogen receptor blocker like nolvadex
proviron in normal doses of say 100mg/day has no demonstrated anti-estrogenic effect including no demonstrated anti-aromatase effect. this has been discussed to death. use it for a boner or use it if you think it will help you reduce shbg(just remember even if it does it results in no measurable change in free test) but forget it for any meaningful effect on estrogen levels. have some tamoxifen and/or arimidex on hand if estrogen concerns you.
as far as pct goes, it will not help you recover and may slow recovery down. i would recommed it for pct ONLY if you are having a difficult time with sexual side effects during recovery. If it were cheaper i would always have some around for the weekends!
i would encourage everyone to ignore this article, there is very little there that even comes close to touching the actual world and talks mostly in some fantasy that the author must have put together from some surfing on the boards rather than actually doing any research. This is an example about the very worst in propagating untruths.
jb
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasthace
My contribution,http://www.eurobolic.com/index.php?main_page=proviron
Sorry I did'nt include any personal ramblings or tips from experiance,because I have'nt used it.Looks like it stops aromitisation and is not a estrogen receptor blocker like nolvadex
Not necessary, but nice. Supports the action of other andros, stimulates sexual feelings, as well as resists aromatization (but not to the extent of anti-estros like a-dex.)
Whether it's an anti-estro or not is a moot point & has been argued before, as JB points out. I should have added that it is a known means of combatting excess water retention (& here I speak from some experience). Perhaps that alone has given it the reputation of being a mild anti-aromatize.
You'd be cheating yourself to use it during PCT since Provi is still an androgen. But sometimes for the sake of "the old Adam" we've got to cheat to get it on properly (thank yew, James Brown). [See my thread on Cheating.] I have found that during the nolva-clomid period, sex drive is still pretty good, but nothing like it was on 750mg Test/wk. After the last nolva it lapses a bit until HPTA remembers its purpose.
Some people use Provi after their last Test shot for about 3 weeks until they begin the nolva-clomid recall to grim reality as a sort of mini-bridge.
i would encourage everyone to ignore this article, there is very little there that even comes close to touching the actual world and talks mostly in some fantasy that the author must have put together from some surfing on the boards rather than actually doing any research. This is an example about the very worst in propagating untruths.
jb
OK big guy,now I want to see evidence,you talk like you ARE the authority,bring out the paper work,if you can.
And no cheap desperate ego attacts bro, just facts form studies.
Ego attacks? Have i offended you somehow? I was referring to the article you referenced that specifically states that proviron is an anti-aromatase and therefore nolvadex is not needed for the prevention and/or treatment of gynecomastia! I feel that it is irresponsible and negligent. We are not discussing the relative merits of a steroid and what works or does not work for different people, we are talking about a very serious medical complication that this article is proposing proviron to be effective in the prevention of to the exclusion of a known effective drug! I acknowledge that proviron can be great for a lagging sex life and that for some people it seems to work very well for hardness and ridding the body of excess water. I am even willing to admit that some think that using proviropn they do not need anti-e's. All of that is a far cry from categorically stating that this drug is an effective anti-e/anti-aromatase and will prevent/resolve gynecomastia! Unlike nolvadex there is not a single scientific study that presents any evidence of proviron's effectiveness combating gyno and i have not read a single study where it has been demonstrated to have anti-e effects.
My concern is that when people state on an open forum that proviron is an anti-e, readers will actually believe it and not have nolvadex on hand when needed and will suffer the consequences eg gynecomastia.
You say i am claiming to be the expert but i am not asserting that proviron has the aforementioned medicinal properties, the article you referenced did! How can i prove that it does not? To the best of my knowledge no one has ever proposed to study the anti-e effects of proviron, this might lead one to believe that there is no reason for such a study. It is hard to prove a negative whereas it is very easy to prove the opposite.
So, here is the simple task, go to medline and do a search on mesterolone, read each and every one and report back to us with the ones that demonstrate anti-e results or success in treating or preventing gyno. Please do not report back what all the gurus opinions are in all the on-line anabolic references and do not tell us how it is similar in structure to another drug which actually has anti-e properties. Just find us a single research study posted in a peer reviewed journal. I welcome it as it would shed some light on what has been a very confusing and obfuscated topic. I have tried to find this research without any luck.
I hope i do not sound like i would resort to "ego" attacks or name calling or any other low ball responses. for me it is very simple. if you state it as a fact be prepared to prove it, if it is an opinion you are welcome to it. Anecdotal information is important and useful but we have to be careful sorting it out from fact when the consequences are as serious as gyno.
Until we see that research, i would humbly suggest that readers have nolvadex or some other proven drug on hand in case the proviron they are using is not up to the task.
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