Receptor grade IGF

[gunsbilat]

There's a company that clames to have receptor grade LR3IGF1 for $449.00 pluss 49.00 shipping. Should I just assume it's media grade? I can't afford to throw my money away to find out.

[atomicone]

I don't know what Igtropin is by GenLei, but it works and looks professionaly made and it's $1300 including shipping and insurance for 5000mcg. Enough for 2 60iu per day 4 week cycles.

Originally Posted by gunsbilat

There's a company that clames to have receptor grade LR3IGF1 for $449.00 pluss 49.00 shipping. Should I just assume it's media grade? I can't afford to throw my money away to find out.

[carey mullis]

$449 for how much?

Sigma-Aldrich currently sells (to the research community only) receptor-grade IGF-1 Long3 for $332 per 50 micrograms.

I'd stick with media-grade if I were you.

[MaxRep]

Originally Posted by gunsbilat

There's a company that clames to have receptor grade LR3IGF1 for $449.00 pluss 49.00 shipping. Should I just assume it's media grade? I can't afford to throw my money away to find out.

I think I would be very skeptical of anyone who can't get their facts straight.

From AG's website:

LONG Research3, IGF-1 - RECEPTOR GRADE PRODUCT

The difference between media grade IGF1 (the cheap IGF) and receptor grade is vast. Media grade is 72% pure and receptor grade is 99% pure;

FALSE... media grade is >85% pure and receptor grade is >95% pure.

also, the receptor grade has a longer half-life then media grade,

FALSE... there's no proof of this and no scientific basis to even make such a claim.

which benefits the research timing. Bottles come with 1mg of lyophilized powder (white dry powder) in it and can be mixed with Bacteriostatic Water since it is so pure. HOWEVER, Media grade must be pre-mixed with BA since it is not as pure and is NOT stable while being shipped.

FALSE... they should both be mixed in an acidic medium, BA works fine. The difference in purity has no bearing on how quickly it degrades in the wrong medium. BSW works ok IF you're planning on using it within 1 day.

Thus, media grade products are not only unstable

FALSE... media grade in BA is stable for many months.

but can become problematic during the shipping process. As anything in life, you get what you pay for, and media grade products are just not worth the money. It's equivalent to buying a Ferrari vs. a Mustang, both are sports cars but obviously the Ferrari is a much better sports car and will got faster and handle better.

People should know this analogy is advertising/marketing hype with zero credibility to the difference between media and receptor grade IGF.

Also, our receptor grade product is made in a lab and placed in the bottles in the lab, while media grade products sold by others are usually RE-bottled, would you want that?

This is a funny one. All IGF products are made in a lab and bottled. How else could they be made and shipped out? They're not rebottled from folks like Gensci... They are rebottled from the gold standard producer Gropep but lots of distributors rebottle large quantities into small containers, it's really a non-issue.

The bottom line is that these guys are so full of misinformation, I wouldn't spend a penny with them unless they have an independent lab assay to confirm what they're selling.

Caveat Emptor to anyone willing to give their money to these people.

MaxRep

[Buckwheat]

Maxrep-

I'd say the price is just too good to be true..........

Personally I don't see how they could sell it that cheap.

[RooTShell]

Originally Posted by MaxRep

I think I would be very skeptical of anyone who can't get their facts straight.

From AG's website:

LONG Research3, IGF-1 - RECEPTOR GRADE PRODUCT

The difference between media grade IGF1 (the cheap IGF) and receptor grade is vast. Media grade is 72% pure and receptor grade is 99% pure;

FALSE... media grade is >85% pure and receptor grade is >95% pure.

Media grade from Gropep is >85% pure but IGF-1 that's coming from Asia (generic IGF-1, GenSci Igtropin, etc...) is >72%.

Receptor grade is >99% pure, often 100% pure. You can email Gropep and they will confirm this.

Originally Posted by MaxRep

also, the receptor grade has a longer half-life then media grade,

FALSE... there's no proof of this and no scientific basis to even make such a claim.

Correct, there's no scientific basis to make such claim...

Originally Posted by MaxRep

which benefits the research timing. Bottles come with 1mg of lyophilized powder (white dry powder) in it and can be mixed with Bacteriostatic Water since it is so pure. HOWEVER, Media grade must be pre-mixed with BA since it is not as pure and is NOT stable while being shipped.

FALSE... they should both be mixed in an acidic medium, BA works fine. The difference in purity has no bearing on how quickly it degrades in the wrong medium. BSW works ok IF you're planning on using it within 1 day.

Wrong. You have to remember that IGF-1 LR3 is synthizided from ecoli (bacteria). The whole objective is to preserve and stabilize the IGF-1,thats why bacteriostatic solution is used. Bacteriostatic is also adjusted to human blood ph levels(9%) so there is no stinging and it absorbs into human blood much better. My reference is to recpetor grade here. Since is so pure BA is not needed because the risk of contamination is very little. This is the same reason why HGH is diluted with bac water not BA.

The stability of IGF-1 is related to the enzyme level and refers to the degree of purity. Purity levels with a sensitive peptide like IGF-1 are crucial, with 1% making a markedly difference. Media grade was designed as an inexpensive analog for serum-free or reduced-serum culture media. Receptor grade is a more expensive analog designed for serum environments. Hence, due to this serum free or reduced serum environment media grade is less potent and stable then receptor grade in serum blood levels.

Originally Posted by MaxRep

Thus, media grade products are not only unstable

FALSE... media grade in BA is stable for many months.

True, but that doesn't mean that IGF-1 LR3 Media Grade is a stable peptide.

Originally Posted by MaxRep

but can become problematic during the shipping process. As anything in life, you get what you pay for, and media grade products are just not worth the money. It's equivalent to buying a Ferrari vs. a Mustang, both are sports cars but obviously the Ferrari is a much better sports car and will got faster and handle better.

People should know this analogy is advertising/marketing hype with zero credibility to the difference between media and receptor grade IGF.

Well, I'm not going to argue about the advertising/masketing startegies that AG use, but one thing is for sure, I've used both Media Grade and Receptor Grade and there is not comparison between both of them. Receptor Grade is much superior than Media Grade.

Also, when I used Media Grade I noticed that the effects started to slow down by week 4 while with Receptor Grade I can use it for 8 weeks straight.

BTW, just to make things clear, I never used AG and I don't endorse (sp?) them. And I can get my Receptor Grade cheaper than them, it's just a matter of having the right connections.

Just my .02

RooTShell

[RooTShell]

Originally Posted by atomicone

I don't know what Igtropin is by GenLei, but it works and looks professionaly made and it's $1300 including shipping and insurance for 1000mcg. Enough for 2 cycles.

Igtropin is Media Grade.

$1300 for 1mg??? That's outrageous. You can get it for $205 with shipping and insurance included.

Also, since it's receptor grade you'll need a minimum of 60-80mcg/day so 1000mcg will not last for 2 cycles...

RooTShell

[atomicone]

Sorry I meant $1300 for 5000ius including 3 day shipping and insurance.

Originally Posted by RooTShell

Igtropin is Media Grade.

$1300 for 1mg??? That's outrageous. You can get it for $205 with shipping and insurance included.

Also, since it's receptor grade you'll need a minimum of 60-80mcg/day so 1000mcg will not last for 2 cycles...

RooTShell

[atomicone]

If you're trying to claim that Igtropin (what you call media grade) mixed with sterile water or BA is unstable and doesn't work, you are very mistaken. I have run two cycles with this product using just the sterile solution provided and it works. Guaranteed!

Originally Posted by RooTShell

Media grade from Gropep is >85% pure but IGF-1 that's coming from Asia (generic IGF-1, GenSci Igtropin, etc...) is >72%.

Receptor grade is >99% pure, often 100% pure. You can email Gropep and they will confirm this.




Correct, there's no scientific basis to make such claim...



Wrong. You have to remember that IGF-1 LR3 is synthizided from ecoli (bacteria). The whole objective is to preserve and stabilize the IGF-1,thats why bacteriostatic solution is used. Bacteriostatic is also adjusted to human blood ph levels(9%) so there is no stinging and it absorbs into human blood much better. My reference is to recpetor grade here. Since is so pure BA is not needed because the risk of contamination is very little. This is the same reason why HGH is diluted with bac water not BA.

The stability of IGF-1 is related to the enzyme level and refers to the degree of purity. Purity levels with a sensitive peptide like IGF-1 are crucial, with 1% making a markedly difference. Media grade was designed as an inexpensive analog for serum-free or reduced-serum culture media. Receptor grade is a more expensive analog designed for serum environments. Hence, due to this serum free or reduced serum environment media grade is less potent and stable then receptor grade in serum blood levels.




True, but that doesn't mean that IGF-1 LR3 Media Grade is a stable peptide.



Well, I'm not going to argue about the advertising/masketing startegies that AG use, but one thing is for sure, I've used both Media Grade and Receptor Grade and there is not comparison between both of them. Receptor Grade is much superior than Media Grade.

Also, when I used Media Grade I noticed that the effects started to slow down by week 4 while with Receptor Grade I can use it for 8 weeks straight.

BTW, just to make things clear, I never used AG and I don't endorse (sp?) them. And I can get my Receptor Grade cheaper than them, it's just a matter of having the right connections.

Just my .02

RooTShell

[RooTShell]

Originally Posted by atomicone

If you're trying to claim that Igtropin (what you call media grade) mixed with sterile water or BA is unstable and doesn't work, you are very mistaken. I have run two cycles with this product using just the sterile solution provided and it works. Guaranteed!

Did I claim anything that you're saying??? Please read my post again!

Igtropin is Media Grade, not because I say so but because I got the info directly from GenSci. Here's what Mr. Chen (Sales Manager) wrote to me last month regarding their IGF-1 LR3 (Igtropin)

"It is media grade. In fact, the current IGF-1 LR3 is being manufactured according to receptor grade, but our quality still was not up to par."

Of course all this info can be checked with GenSci... Just e-mail them, call them, fax them, etc... and they will confirm.

Just because it's Media Grade it doesn't means it doesn't work as you claim I said. I've used Igtropin and it works to some extend. With Receptor Grade I take 30mcg and the results are similar as when I take 100-120mcg of Media Grade. Also, as stated in my previous reply, with Media Grade after 4 weeks the gains slow alot while with Receptor Grade I've been for 8 weeks straight with great results.

In my previous reply I also said that Media Grade should be mixed with BA in order to be a stable solution so you're contradicting yourself by saying "If you're trying to claim that Igtropin (what you call media grade) mixed with sterile water or BA is unstable and doesn't work, you are very mistaken".

What I said is that Media Grade (in this case Igtropin) mixed with sterile water or bw is very unstable. If you read the insert that comes with Igtropin kits you'll notice that it says "After reconstitution, keep at 35.6- 46.4 degrees Fahrenheit and is stable within 24 hours". So do you think 24h is stable enough to call it a "stable product"? If you use BA to reconstitute it then it can last for months. So here's the major difference between Receptor Grade and Media Grade. If you reconstitute them with BW, Receptor Grade will last for months while Media Grade will last only 24h. As I said before this is due to the purity of the powder, and in this particular case more purity = more stability = better results.

RooTShell

[MaxRep]

I would like to get to the bottom of this so please don't take anything I say in the wrong way.

Receptor grade is >99% pure, often 100% pure. You can email Gropep and they will confirm this.

Then why wouldn't Gropep put this on their spec sheet on their website. It's hardly like a reputable company to "dumb down" their product. Sorry, I think I'll believe what Gropep say in their spec sheet... >95%. However, if you have something in writing from Gropep that says something other than what their website says, please post it and share the info with the rest of us.

Wrong. You have to remember that IGF-1 LR3 is synthizided from ecoli (bacteria). The whole objective is to preserve and stabilize the IGF-1,thats why bacteriostatic solution is used. Bacteriostatic is also adjusted to human blood ph levels(9%) so there is no stinging and it absorbs into human blood much better.

Again, not sure what you're referring to. Gropep actually recommends HCL for dilution and the procdures and length of stability are the same whether it's media grade or receptor grade.

The stability of IGF-1 is related to the enzyme level and refers to the degree of purity. Purity levels with a sensitive peptide like IGF-1 are crucial, with 1% making a markedly difference.

Again, Gropep says the stability is the same despite a 10% difference in purity. 1% makes a marked difference? Then why would the stability be the same?

Media grade was designed as an inexpensive analog for serum-free or reduced-serum culture media. Receptor grade is a more expensive analog designed for serum environments.

Yes, because it's easier and cheaper to make a >85% pure product than a >95% pure product.

Hence, due to this serum free or reduced serum environment media grade is less potent and stable then receptor grade in serum blood levels.

Again, less potent to a very minor degree and less stable is highly questionable and not supported by what Gropep says.

Perhaps we should review what serum free means as you seem to be attributing things to it that I wouldn't...

Best regards,
MaxRep
__________________________________________________ ___
Serum-free Media

Introduction

The use of serum-free media formulations for the growth of mammalian cells is well established and has been extensively reviewed (1, 2). The incorporation of serum-free formulations into the production of cells or cellular-derived products is rapidly expanding. Applications include the production of monoclonal antibodies, viral antigens and recombinant proteins using a variety of mammalian and invertebrate cell lines (3, 4).

Numerous advantages are associated with the use of serum-free media formulations. Removal of human or animal serum from the growth environment increases control over the presence of adventitious agents by allowing a more thorough analysis of individual raw materials. Serum-free formulations generally contain lower amounts of protein and are more defined than serum-containing formulations, therefore simplifying protocols for product purification. An example of this may be found with protein-free formulations that are commercially available for applications involving murine hybridomas. In these formulations, the monoclonal antibody may be the only protein detectable in the culture supernatant. Removal of serum from the formulation also decreases lot-to-lot variation of the serum-free product by eliminating the inherent variability associated with different lots of animal sera.

An additional benefit associated with serum-free formulations is that they can be optimized for use with a particular cell type. This is of paramount importance when considering the application of a serum-free formulation to the commercial-scale production of recombinant proteins. The formulation may be optimized to meet a variety of design criteria including culture longevity, cell density, atmospheric conditions, bioreactor compatibility (i.e. stirred tank, hollow fiber, fluidized bed or air lift fermentor) and purification constraints. Our fundamental goal, when designing a serum-free formulation, is to satisfy the maximum number of these criteria.

The development of commercial serum-free formulations must take into consideration a variety of factors. Scientific review and user requirements are essential components when determining the design criteria of a formulation with respect to performance characteristics, regulatory concerns, optimal product configuration and cost.

Serum-free media formulations must satisfy a number of nutritional and physical requirements of cells which are normally addressed by the presence of serum. Most serum-free products contain transferrin to deliver iron to the cells and insulin to regulate the uptake of glucose. Proteins such as albumin, fibronectin and fetuin serve a variety of functions which include absorbing toxic compounds, providing protection against shear forces in bioreactors, creating a matrix for cellular attachment to surfaces and acting as a carrier for lipids and other growth factors.

References
1. Growth of cells in hormonally defined media. Sato, Pardee and Sibasku eds. Cold Spring Harbor Conferences on Cell Proliferation Vol.9. Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory. Cold Spring Harbor, NY USA (1982).
2. Barnes, D. and Sato, G. Methods for the growth of cultured cells in serum-free medium. Anal. Biochem., 1G2, 255 (1980).
3. Rhodes, M. and Birch, A. Large-scale production of proteins from mammalian cells. Biotechnology, 6, 518 (1988).
4. Luckow, V and Summers, M. Trends in the development of baculovirus expression vectors Biotechnology, 6, 47 (1988).

[atomicone]

Definitely a correct statement "Again, less potent to a very minor degree and less stable is highly questionable and not supported by what Gropep says." There is no way receptor grade is 4X more potent than media grade as RooTShell claims in his above post.

Originally Posted by MaxRep

I would like to get to the bottom of this so please don't take anything I say in the wrong way.



Then why wouldn't Gropep put this on their spec sheet on their website. It's hardly like a reputable company to "dumb down" their product. Sorry, I think I'll believe what Gropep say in their spec sheet... >95%. However, if you have something in writing from Gropep that says something other than what their website says, please post it and share the info with the rest of us.



Again, not sure what you're referring to. Gropep actually recommends HCL for dilution and the procdures and length of stability are the same whether it's media grade or receptor grade.



Again, Gropep says the stability is the same despite a 10% difference in purity. 1% makes a marked difference? Then why would the stability be the same?



Yes, because it's easier and cheaper to make a >85% pure product than a >95% pure product.



Again, less potent to a very minor degree and less stable is highly questionable and not supported by what Gropep says.

Perhaps we should review what serum free means as you seem to be attributing things to it that I wouldn't...

Best regards,
MaxRep
__________________________________________________ ___
Serum-free Media

Introduction

The use of serum-free media formulations for the growth of mammalian cells is well established and has been extensively reviewed (1, 2). The incorporation of serum-free formulations into the production of cells or cellular-derived products is rapidly expanding. Applications include the production of monoclonal antibodies, viral antigens and recombinant proteins using a variety of mammalian and invertebrate cell lines (3, 4).

Numerous advantages are associated with the use of serum-free media formulations. Removal of human or animal serum from the growth environment increases control over the presence of adventitious agents by allowing a more thorough analysis of individual raw materials. Serum-free formulations generally contain lower amounts of protein and are more defined than serum-containing formulations, therefore simplifying protocols for product purification. An example of this may be found with protein-free formulations that are commercially available for applications involving murine hybridomas. In these formulations, the monoclonal antibody may be the only protein detectable in the culture supernatant. Removal of serum from the formulation also decreases lot-to-lot variation of the serum-free product by eliminating the inherent variability associated with different lots of animal sera.

An additional benefit associated with serum-free formulations is that they can be optimized for use with a particular cell type. This is of paramount importance when considering the application of a serum-free formulation to the commercial-scale production of recombinant proteins. The formulation may be optimized to meet a variety of design criteria including culture longevity, cell density, atmospheric conditions, bioreactor compatibility (i.e. stirred tank, hollow fiber, fluidized bed or air lift fermentor) and purification constraints. Our fundamental goal, when designing a serum-free formulation, is to satisfy the maximum number of these criteria.

The development of commercial serum-free formulations must take into consideration a variety of factors. Scientific review and user requirements are essential components when determining the design criteria of a formulation with respect to performance characteristics, regulatory concerns, optimal product configuration and cost.

Serum-free media formulations must satisfy a number of nutritional and physical requirements of cells which are normally addressed by the presence of serum. Most serum-free products contain transferrin to deliver iron to the cells and insulin to regulate the uptake of glucose. Proteins such as albumin, fibronectin and fetuin serve a variety of functions which include absorbing toxic compounds, providing protection against shear forces in bioreactors, creating a matrix for cellular attachment to surfaces and acting as a carrier for lipids and other growth factors.

References
1. Growth of cells in hormonally defined media. Sato, Pardee and Sibasku eds. Cold Spring Harbor Conferences on Cell Proliferation Vol.9. Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory. Cold Spring Harbor, NY USA (1982).
2. Barnes, D. and Sato, G. Methods for the growth of cultured cells in serum-free medium. Anal. Biochem., 1G2, 255 (1980).
3. Rhodes, M. and Birch, A. Large-scale production of proteins from mammalian cells. Biotechnology, 6, 518 (1988).
4. Luckow, V and Summers, M. Trends in the development of baculovirus expression vectors Biotechnology, 6, 47 (1988).

[gunsbilat]

Thanks everyone for your input. That's why I come here. It's appretiated.

[rickusa2000]

my friend has used both media and receptor igf-1 and he swears by receptor.just my 2 cents.

[MuscleResearch]

Bottom Line Media grade from gropep 95% or greater purity.

Igtropin from Gensci 97% or greater purity.

IGF is most stable when in an enviroment that has a PH of around 3

BA is higher than this and isnt quite that acidic. A solution of Acetic acid mixed with Bacteriostatic water has a ph between 3-4. A very good enviroment for IGF

The difference between Receptor and media grade is one that will most likely only be noticed in a laboratory setting.

-MR