Severe sexual side effects from Nolvadex

[toppel]

I am finasteride side effect sufferer. I have many of the sexual side effects associated with propecia. My doctor has prescribed nolvadex for one month, but it causes me loss of libido and ED which is what I was trying to get treated for in the first place.

My doctor put me on Nolvdadex for 4 weeks. The first week I started with 40mg per day, then dropped to 30, then 20, then 10. I just finished up. I have zero libido and ED. (Worse than it was from the propecia) My ejaculate decreased in volume quite a bit, but it's nowhere near as watery. I would still get morning erections after the propecia and cialis would give me some help. I also had at least a little libido left. The tamoxifen wiped that out completely.

I have to tell you...I'm scared!!!!! Can you please tell me if this is temporary? I will be rerunning urines in two weeks, then meeting with my Doctor to go over my levels, but right now, I have to tell you, I'm stressing out over this HUGE!

Any words of wisdom or encouragement would be greatly appreciated or even if it's bad news...I need to know.

Thank you so much for any help you can give me.

[s0b]

I also took finasteride in the past for one month or 5 weeks or so.
I havent had proper sex since then. Its 4 yrs now.
Yet i managed to show 30-40% improvement after one and a half yr since i quit.
At that timei started lifting weights and playing more sports and cutting down all apart from weigh protein.
It seems that my liver was left at a bizzare state after finasteride use.
Any alcohol, excess vitamins or anything in excess would just trigger my liver somehow and my balls would shrink, have ED, loss of libido, pains in scrotum, shrinkage of penis and all the side effects when being on finasteride and duriing the first yr after it.

I dont know about nolvadex, i am thinking of starting some HcG + nolvadex in the future, but i m very skeptikal about it, my estrogen levels are not that high.

Last yr i got overtraining syndrome, and my finasteride problems were back. Offcourse this is logical when your free testo drops from 20 to 8.5 and your cortisol hits the top. But still i cant say i feel any better. My penis size is still decreased and i have very little urge for sex, watery semen and all those stupid post finasteride problems. Despite my free testo being at 16.5 now (normal is 15-42)

You didnt say when and for how long you took finasteride for and state any of your blood tests.
In my opinion you should refrain from all possible therapies for some time, since many finasteride users have felt better as yrs go by. Offcourse this is not always true, but its statistically seen. It also depends on how your gonadotropins have been affected.

Till now, no one really knows the exact mechanism by which finasteride brings such a deterioration to your sexual status.
Nevertheless, people who have used it, have seen a steady drop in their testosterone levels from yr to yr. Moreover some have experienced a faster drop in their FsH levels while LH would remain the same. Others had the exact opposite effects. Some others have steadily increasing estrogen or progesterone.

I really dont know my self, i spend months initially trying to understand how that drug affects your system short and long term, i read and read but never reached to a point of understanding whats going on, then i gave up and concentrated on healthy living. It is a crappy steroid for sure but i guess that some time from now there will be some breakthroughs in treating people with post fin erectile problems.

One thing i always wanted to try, but didnt know how helpfull it could be is take a steady dose of milk thistle for like 2-3 months, just for the sake of it. But with all them vitamins and proteins i have been on i guess i wouldnt really understand if it works or not.

I also started noticing some minor panic attacks after finasteride. I dont even know how much it correlates with my overtraiing sickness, but i guess lowering testosterone year by year would make my adrenals vulnerable and prolong stressful conditions. I wish someone could help me out as well in explaining that.

Hang in there, if you took something that made you worse, cut it down. Write down your blood tests and your experience with propecia and get back to as much healthy living as possible. Maybe time is the best healer after all

[hackskii]

You will be alright toppel
nolva is a mixed agonist and antagonist to estrogen.
Once you stop you will come back to normal.

[solo47]

Strange. Nolvadex always makes me more horny than usual.

Solo

[No1Uknow]

Originally Posted by solo47

Strange. Nolvadex always makes me more horny than usual.

Solo

I never noticed any difference one way or another.

[hackskii]

I never noticed a diffrence either way myself.

[solo47]

Originally Posted by hackskii

I never noticed a diffrence either way myself.

Yeah, it don't do much, but since it does raise testosterone levels somewhat it can have that effect. If your test levels are low (post cycle say, and you've waited to begin your PCT), you may feel out of sorts, listless, with no libido. At that point, a swallow of tamoxifen for a few days can be really revitalizing.

Okay?

Solo

[hackskii]

Originally Posted by solo47

Yeah, it don't do much, but since it does raise testosterone levels somewhat it can have that effect. If your test levels are low (post cycle say, and you've waited to begin your PCT), you may feel out of sorts, listless, with no libido. At that point, a swallow of tamoxifen for a few days can be really revitalizing.

Okay?

Solo

Could be, but nolva is a mixed agonist and antagonist to estrogen.
I completely understand PCT and to be honest one does not go into PCT with no testicular function. The whole point in PCT is to bring the HPTA back online. Nuts take the longest so
HCG would be used here, the nolva and clomid would be used to avoid leydig cell desentization, and the sides from the aromitization of HCG.

I undestand your point, nolva does very little for morning wood for me, now clomid on the other hand does help that.

But remember everyone is diffrent, some dudes cant take clomid as they feel like women, for me I dont get this problem but I do get tracers.

One day on nolva wont raise test levels with any significance, short term use wont either.

[solo47]

Originally Posted by hackskii

Could be, but nolva is a mixed agonist and antagonist to estrogen.
I completely understand PCT and to be honest one does not go into PCT with no testicular function. The whole point in PCT is to bring the HPTA back online. Nuts take the longest so
HCG would be used here, the nolva and clomid would be used to avoid leydig cell desentization, and the sides from the aromitization of HCG.

Yeah, yeah, but I was just talking about when one is on low drive from low testosterone levels, not just "before PCT". I've taken tamoxifen between cycles after PCT when I've felt a little listless & it has helped considerably after a few days, so I can then ease back off. After all tamox citrate is an estrogen blocker that can increase the release of luteinizing hormone from the pituitary gland and subsequent testosterone synthesis.

Originally Posted by hackskii

I undestand your point, nolva does very little for morning wood for me, now clomid on the other hand does help that.
But remember everyone is diffrent, some dudes cant take clomid as they feel like women, for me I dont get this problem but I do get tracers.

Clomid also raises test levels but it takes more of it and, yes, there are unpleasant hot-flash-like sides for many, me included.

Originally Posted by hackskii

One day on nolva wont raise test levels with any significance, short term use wont either.

Ah, Hacksky, always so edgy, especially when you're not certain of your facts: William Llewellyn writes: "Nolvadex, used for 10 days at a dosage of 20mg daily, increased serum testosterone levels to 142% of baseline." Then he goes on to compare nolvadex favourably with clomid. See Clomid, Nolvadex, and Testosterone Stimulation. I'd say 142% could be "significant".

Solo

[hackskii]

Originally Posted by solo47

At that point, a swallow of tamoxifen for a few days can be really revitalizing.
Solo

I was going by your statement here, few days wont do jack shit.

They test pituitary output for LH using the Clomid Stimulation Test, they dont use nolva, they use clomid to determine if one is primary or secondary hypogonadism.

Trust me I do understand what you are saying and in some direction I actually agree, but in another your statement is flawed due to time frame.

Nolva is not an anti-estrogen, it is a SERM.
If you want to correct me then fine but please do it with something that is factual.
When one comes off a cycle they should be using HCG throughout to keep and maintain full testicular function.
Only time it might be low is when the hypothalamus and pituitary are not online, that could take a couple of seeks to start sending the signals of LH to the leydig cells.
This is where clomid and nolva come to play.

They do not use nolva nor clomid as a replacement to TRT.

Nolva is a junk drug, I can give you some good information that just might scare the shit out of your for that.
Prostate for one and at your age this is something I would not really be playing around with.
The prostate comes from the same embryonic tissue as the uterus.
There is two things that cause uterine cancer, one is estrogen and the other is tamoxifen.
Beings that all men if they get old enough will have some form of prostate problem whether it be prostate cancer, BPH or prostatitis, playing around with SERMS to boost testosterone levels is not actually a good idea.

I think there is a right way and a wrong way to do things, taking pills for a cause and effect might not be the safest approach.

I am not edgy, but your words sound condisending to me and I find that insulting due to the knowledge you have.

[solo47]

Sorry, Hack. No offense intended.

Yep, I know nolva is a SERM; it does block estro but only in certain areas such as breast tissue.

What I did not know was about its possible correlation with prostate problems. I'm on Flomax now so guess that means I have a not unexpectedly enlarged prostate (expected for my age). Always thought tamoxifen was considered a "safe" way to get a small between-cycle testosterone boost. May have to reconsider that.

Solo

Originally Posted by hackskii

I was going by your statement here, few days wont do jack shit.

They test pituitary output for LH using the Clomid Stimulation Test, they dont use nolva, they use clomid to determine if one is primary or secondary hypogonadism.

Trust me I do understand what you are saying and in some direction I actually agree, but in another your statement is flawed due to time frame.

Nolva is not an anti-estrogen, it is a SERM.
If you want to correct me then fine but please do it with something that is factual.
When one comes off a cycle they should be using HCG throughout to keep and maintain full testicular function.
Only time it might be low is when the hypothalamus and pituitary are not online, that could take a couple of seeks to start sending the signals of LH to the leydig cells.
This is where clomid and nolva come to play.

They do not use nolva nor clomid as a replacement to TRT.

Nolva is a junk drug, I can give you some good information that just might scare the shit out of your for that.
Prostate for one and at your age this is something I would not really be playing around with.
The prostate comes from the same embryonic tissue as the uterus.
There is two things that cause uterine cancer, one is estrogen and the other is tamoxifen.
Beings that all men if they get old enough will have some form of prostate problem whether it be prostate cancer, BPH or prostatitis, playing around with SERMS to boost testosterone levels is not actually a good idea.

I think there is a right way and a wrong way to do things, taking pills for a cause and effect might not be the safest approach.

I am not edgy, but your words sound condisending to me and I find that insulting due to the knowledge you have.

[hackskii]

Problem with nolva is it is a mixed agonist and antagonist to estrogen.
So, on some tissues it blocks the receptors and wont exert estrogens effects, but on other tissues like potentially the prostate I do believe it acts like an estrogen.
If what I suspect is right then there is some risk.
Due to the high risk of probable potential for prostate problems, between cycles I would deffo leave that alone.

I think you would be healthier and in some effects get the same benefits from cruciferous vegetables (Arugula, Broccoli, Cauliflower, Brussels Sprouts, Cabbage, Watercress, Bok Choy, Turnip Greens, Mustard Greens, and Collard Greens, Mizuna, Tatsoi, Rutabaga, Napa or Chinese Cabbage, Daikon, Horseradish, Radishes, Turnips, Kohlrabi, and Kale).

This not has mild anti-estrogen properties but also contains vitamins including vitamin C and folate, minerals including potassium and selenium, and also contain fiber, chlorophyll, as well as antioxidants, flavonoids and phytochemicals, carotenoids, lingnans, phytosterols, isothiocyanates, sulforaphane and glucosinolates (the sulfur compound that makes these veggies zing).

DIMM would be another option, but if we get to the root of the problem I think you would find that this would totally be a great solution, here goes.

As we age as men, out testosterone drops, we tend to get more belly fat, the aromataze enazyme resides primarilly in belly fat, so the more bellyfat the more aromatase enzyme.
The more aromatase enzyme, the more conversion of testosterone to estrogen.
Once the body sees too much estrogen, its only way of lowering estrogen is to trim off some testosterone. Net effect, lower test production and more estrogen.

When men are young, they produce about 10 times the testosterone of a women, and women produce many times more estrogen than men.
As we age, our testosteron to estrogen ballance changes, for the worse.
So, once women go through menopause, you are likely to have more estrogen than your female partner.

If that wasnt bad enough, it is suspect that the testosterone to estrogen ratio has something to do with the issues with the prostate.
I think many feel that it is testosterone or DHT, but young guys dont have prostate issues and older guys do. So, young men with raging hormones of testosterone dont suffer while the declining male hormonal guys do.

There is a fantastic product on the market called beta-sitosterol, I have noticed that when I take this product it cuts down night time urination.
I think it is about 300 times more potent than saw palmetto.

Another fantastic product which I found out accidently is fish oils, due to fish oils raising the anti-inflammatory prostaglandins, it actually made my urination flow much harder with more volume. I thought it odd one day that I could piss harder than a month or so ago.
After doing much research I found that the prostate has alot of prostaglandin activity, some prostaglandins are inflammatory like PG-2 (can elivate from AA), where as PG-1 and PG-3 are anti-inflammatory prostaglandins and this is where fish oils come to play.

Another thing, the prostate has the second highest amount of zinc in the body following the macular (eye) tissues.
In fact there is some evidence that points to macular degeneration and zinc deficencies.
Zinc is a mild aromatase inhibitor too and is helpfull in testosterone production.

Anyway, there are natural ways of doing things that probably should be looked into.

[solo47]

Yeah I know, Hack, you own a health food & vitamin supplement store, right?

I may give beta-sitosterol a second try, but by & large I have no faith in herbs & veggies since our bodies use what they need & excrete the rest. Adding more of anything normally digested is just a waste. I can only be sure of a notable effect if it's illegal or I can shoot it.

Solo

[hackskii]

Diet and lifestyle baby.
Alchohol raises estrogen for a time and lowers testosterone production.
A healthy liver eliminates surplus estrogen and sex hormone-binding globulin.

Estrogen has been shown to bind to sex hormone binding globulin in the prostate gland and cause the proliferation of epithelial cells in the prostate.
Oh, and nolva will raise SHBG too and acts as an estrogen on the prostate.

Cruciferous vegetables can help the liver get rid of too much estrogen.
Taking in Soy isoflavones (phytoestrogens), as they compete with estradiol for receptors and stimulate the liver to remove estrogen.

No, I do not own a health food store but I can give you a list of vegetables that will help your prostate.
Lycopene, selenium, and vitamins A and E, saw palmetto, nettle, soy, and pygeum.
There are some promising studies in Europe that suggest DHEA has preventitive effects on prostate, carefull as too much will elivate estrogen.

Melatonin is yet another treatment in Europe that really shows promise. Seems it is the strongest anti-oxidant there is, do to the declining levels of this hormone when we age, it is an awesome addition to promote health. It is a known anti-cancer, anti-oxidant and allows for deeper sleep.
I dream far more on melatonin and I attribute this to more GH output during sleep from the melatonin.