shorter newbie cycle ?

[snough]

I am trying to work out the details of a first cycle. I want to add 10 to 15 lbs LBM and get stronger. I am currently 5-7, 175#, and over 30. I am not looking to be a bbuilder or plifter – just a bigger, better me. Yes, I know I can add more naturally, but I want to give the unnatural route a fair shot, too. I am confident that my diet and routines are properly set-up to be successful. I have been at this plenty long.

I have read all the “First Cycle” posts and recommendations I can find and it seems to me that the Test-E is the consensus pick. There is definitely no consensus on anti-E or PCT. I’ll stick with Nolvadex as the anti-E during the cycle since it looks to be the old-faithful of so many people. I’ll switch to Clomid PCT as that seems to be most common despite some suggestions that Nolva works as well or better. I’ll avoid Arimidex because of the more specific dosing requirements and commonly reported vision issues.

Assuming this all seems ok, I have a few questions if you’re willing to help out.

1. What ever happened to short cycles like the 2-on, 4-off Bill Roberts wrote about? Was this just a fad that turned out to be a bad idea? All the info I could find relating to this is pre-2003. There is little evidence other than the article(s) he wrote about success on this kind of plan, but he makes a good case. I really prefer to go at a slightly slower pace (but still faster than natural) and this sounds like it really fits my needs. Can I set up a successful cycle of Test-E @ 500 mg / week for 3 weeks and then take 6 off and repeat 2 or 3 times? I think I need to take this to at least 3 weeks insted of 2 b/s of the half-life of the Test-E vs. the Tren he originally suggested. Or will this just be a complete waste of time? Would PCT for a short cycle of Test-E be the same as for an 8 week one?

2. What do you think of reducing the Test-E to 400 mg / week and adding in an oral? Perhaps 50mg ed of Winstrol? Will this produce a noticeable difference in the cycle results or sides? I don’t really want to stack more injectables. I’m not “needle-phobic”, but I am looking to add more injections either.

If the short cycle is a bad idea, then I will go with a straight 6 to 8 week cycle. Then the question is to add the Winstrol or not?

So, here are my 2 proposed cycles.

A. Week 1-3 – 500mg Test-E divided into two 250mg times per week taken in the morning on those days. No anti-E unless I notice excessive water gain any suspicion of Gyno. Then I will add 20mg Nolva per day and go up to 40mg if I feel the need. Does it matter what time of day I take this? All at once or divided?
Week 3-4 – 50mg/day Clomid (This pretty much negates the need for HCG, right?)

B. Same as above but reduce Test-E and add Winstrol.

I realize that this will seem a bit of a repeat of the posted newbie cycles and FAQs, but there is no discussion about running any of these for fewer weeks and what sort of results this will achieve.

I know this is a lot to ask. I will be grateful for any help.

[bigbench]

if you want to try a short cycle that actual gives you results that will stay the try a six weeker. get away from the test E though because its affects start showing at about week 4 or 5 and then your done. you want to use fast acting agents like winny, test prop (or susp) and things like that. if you used 400 mgs week test prop and 50mgs day winny, that would be a very nice and solid short stack with good results

[ag-guys]

Originally Posted by bigbench

if you want to try a short cycle that actual gives you results that will stay the try a six weeker. get away from the test E though because its affects start showing at about week 4 or 5 and then your done. you want to use fast acting agents like winny, test prop (or susp) and things like that. if you used 400 mgs week test prop and 50mgs day winny, that would be a very nice and solid short stack with good results

Yeah. Minimum should be 6 but 8 works better IMO.

AG
www.ag-guys.com

[MANWHORE]

Originally Posted by snough

1. What ever happened to short cycles like the 2-on, 4-off Bill Roberts wrote about? Was this just a fad that turned out to be a bad idea?

Your natural test may shut down during those 2 weeks and 4 weeks might not be enough time to bring it back so your basically never coming off .. I say go past 2 and if doing that your better off going to 9-10 .. OR you can go 8 with some shorter esters maybe Prop and an oral .. 1st cycle you said? Try Tren,you'll love it lol

[snough]

Originally Posted by bigbench

get away from the test E though because its affects start showing at about week 4 or 5 and then your done. you want to use fast acting agents like winny, test prop (or susp) and things like that. if you used 400 mgs week test prop and 50mgs day winny, that would be a very nice and solid short stack with good results

What do you mean that "its affects start showing?"

I was apparantely under the dillusion that Test was Test except for different half-lives.

In this plan, would I use the Test-Prop 2 x week or would I have to switch to EOD or ED?

Thanks for the help.

[j martini]

Prop needs to be shot EOD.

Personally i think as a first cycle you should just keep things simple. 500mg of test e per week 250mg monday and thursday, 10-20mgs of nolva ED and clomid for pct.

As a first cyle there is no need to complicate things the above cycle will always produce good results.

[bigbench]

i agree with martini. what i ment by the affects wont start showing right away is that with test E, it is a longer half life which means it takes longer in the body to build up and to take effect. on test susp, you will start to feel and see reslults, usually in a week. with test e, it might take up to 4 or 5 for some individuals.