Shoulder injury OR NOT!

[jsupstarz]

I have been hearing a lot of people lately with shoulder injuries while cycling. Now Im not hear to say that you don't have a shoulder injury but there is another injury that is caused almost SOLELY by the use of anabolic steroids and is extremely common in that context. Partial ruptures or tears of the lateral pectoralis major multi-tendonous junction can mask what most people say as shoulder pain, it is very close to the shoulder insertion of the humerus. It is mostly caused by bench pressing on the deload phase (when the bar is comming down) and the tendons are stretched with too much force and can partially tear,retract or rupture.
When your arm is at your side you may feel no pain. When doing a decline or flat bench press there is a sharp pain transfered into the very front of your shoulder. Most people with this injury (unless its a full avulsion) find that light incline press and shoulder presses with your back 90 deg. to the ground don't bother it very much. If you press your arms in front of your abdomen and push your hands flat together with some force and hold it, you may feel pain in your lateral (outside) chest or even by your axial-shoulder area. The reason why I say this is that this injury can be serious and require surgery. So, to lay off the heavy weights espec. when on cycles to prevent full avulsion if you get this pain. A lot of time it is just shrugged off as the OLD "some shoulder pain so Ill take deca", and IT MAY NOT BE A SHOULDER INJURY AT ALL, AND SOMETHING MORE SERIOUS. It is extremely COMMON IN PEOPLE THAT USE ANABOLIC STEROIDS FOR THE REASONS OF TENDONS NOT BEING ABLE TO HANDLE THE WEIGHT OF THE DELOAD, THE TENDONS BURST. Some cases are worse than others but be aware of this as a possibility and don't be so quick to say "shoulder pain".

[bigcountry76]

Originally Posted by jsupstarz

I have been hearing a lot of people lately with shoulder injuries while cycling. Now Im not hear to say that you don't have a shoulder injury but there is another injury that is caused almost SOLELY by the use of anabolic steroids and is extremely common in that context. Partial ruptures or tears of the lateral pectoralis major multi-tendonous junction can mask what most people say as shoulder pain, it is very close to the shoulder insertion of the humerus. It is mostly caused by bench pressing on the deload phase (when the bar is comming down) and the tendons are stretched with too much force and can partially tear,retract or rupture.
When your arm is at your side you may feel no pain. When doing a decline or flat bench press there is a sharp pain transfered into the very front of your shoulder. Most people with this injury (unless its a full avulsion) find that light incline press and shoulder presses with your back 90 deg. to the ground don't bother it very much. If you press your arms in front of your abdomen and push your hands flat together with some force and hold it, you may feel pain in your lateral (outside) chest or even by your axial-shoulder area. The reason why I say this is that this injury can be serious and require surgery. So, to lay off the heavy weights espec. when on cycles to prevent full avulsion if you get this pain. A lot of time it is just shrugged off as the OLD "some shoulder pain so Ill take deca", and IT MAY NOT BE A SHOULDER INJURY AT ALL, AND SOMETHING MORE SERIOUS. It is extremely COMMON IN PEOPLE THAT USE ANABOLIC STEROIDS FOR THE REASONS OF TENDONS NOT BEING ABLE TO HANDLE THE WEIGHT OF THE DELOAD, THE TENDONS BURST. Some cases are worse than others but be aware of this as a possibility and don't be so quick to say "shoulder pain".

Good post. Amazing you describe exactly how my shoulder feels. I have layed off the heavy weights and light weights and it is getting better. I am not trying to start an agruement with you but if you "hurt" yourself that could be consider an "injury" I think an "injury" is very "tyipcal " way to describe pain or anything pertaining to bodily harm..

But at the same time I do understand what you are saying has about "shoulder Pain" because of the first initilal pain i got in my shoulder. My first reaction was : no pain no gain" I guess everyone will have to figure out if there is pain from actual hurting yourself or just . getting a major burn frrom the pump. I maybe wrong but that is the way i look at it.

what would be good way to start off cycle to avoid any possible pain? Or lets say if you had a done a cycle and gotten that pain. How would you approach your next cycle?
In short i am asking what would be a workout that you mght follow?
thanks for the good post. hope everyone learns from it so they don't make the same mistake has i did.

[juggernaught]

excellent post jsup

[jsupstarz]

Originally Posted by bigcountry76

what would be good way to start off cycle to avoid any possible pain? Or lets say if you had a done a cycle and gotten that pain. How would you approach your next cycle?
In short i am asking what would be a workout that you mght follow?
thanks for the good post. hope everyone learns from it so they don't make the same mistake has i did.

Well, the biggest thing , especially with newer people to aas is discipline. Although your weights consistantly go up everyweek while on a good bulker say dbol for instance, the tendons really haven't changed at all. A good analogy would be , tendons are like rubber bands, if you put a 5 pound weight in a rubber band and hang it from something it's going to snap most likely, but if you took 2 rubber bands (made it thicker therefore stronger) it would not snap. See your muscles get stronger at an exponetially higher rate then tendons. If you are a newbie and say you bench 275 lbs, your tendons can handle that because that is your natural muscle-tendon capacity, but when you gain 75+ lbs on your bench in a short period of time your tendons may not have gained any static strength at ALL. Plus aas can weaken tendons like for instance your tendons may now resemble that of a dried out rubber band (analogy) and we all know how fragile that is. So my advice is that tendon health SHOULD be so important to you, especially when benchpressing heavy weights that just keep going up , and up. It may be depressing but even though you could go 25 lbs heavier the next week don't. Most people increase their weights (espec. heavy sets) by 10lbs +a week or more for the same reps, after 4 weeks this is a problem. That's 40 plus pounds more than your tendons are accustomed to without making any change in tendon strength. Places have shown that incline bench (slow and controlled) with moderate weights can improve the strength of the multitendenous junction faster then other excersises. Overall, just be aware, stretch, and don't be afraid to stay around the same weight for a while, because you won't be able to IMPRESS your friends for long when you can't bench for 6-8 months.

[HDH]

So are you saying that Deca would not work with this type of injury?

When you used the analogy with the dry rubber band were you referring to all aas or one like winstrol?

HDH

[juggernaught]

After my two triceps ruptures ill have missed a total of 26 months of any kind of pressing motions..
mine might not have been aas related so much as stupidity on my part for not listening to my body and giving it the breaks it needed< but the last cycle i did before injury i did increase weights faster then i had previously on cycles. Evon after the cycle was over I would go to the gym and every mon and thur I would bench ,mon heavy thurs light the only dif being that on mon id go to heavy trips and thurs id stay at 8+ reps ,worried more about showing off then longevity.

[HDH]

Originally Posted by juggernaught

After my two triceps ruptures ill have missed a total of 26 months of any kind of pressing motions..
mine might not have been aas related so much as stupidity on my part for not listening to my body and giving it the breaks it needed< but the last cycle i did before injury i did increase weights faster then i had previously on cycles. Evon after the cycle was over I would go to the gym and every mon and thur I would bench ,mon heavy thurs light the only dif being that on mon id go to heavy trips and thurs id stay at 8+ reps ,worried more about showing off then longevity.

I don't know if I could handle 26 months.

HDH

[juggernaught]

well i had a year in-between injurys so it wasnt as bad as it sounds , hell the day I injured my right tri i had the best day id had on benchpress since id been back ( hit 405 for 10 reps all paused at bottom all raw )the i tripped on a rock at work while talking on a cel and SNAP there goes the tri......... oh well im a clumsy fu@@er lol

[juggernaught]

Originally Posted by HDH

I don't know if I could handle 26 months.

HDH

yes you could its in your blood , you live, you learn, you grow
im heading to the gym in a bit to hit chest shoulders and tris lol , flyes, laterals and one arm extensions!! you adapt....

[jsupstarz]

Originally Posted by HDH

So are you saying that Deca would not work with this type of injury?

When you used the analogy with the dry rubber band were you referring to all aas or one like winstrol?

HDH

Well Muscle size and strength increase, but the strength and elasticity of tendons and ligaments do not. As a result, tendon inflammation, ligament inflammation occur making the end product a weaker tendon. Deca is really good for lubricating joints, although tendons are ultimatley not joints. Many people have gotten this devastating injury while on Deca only. And ALL steroids weaken tendons to some degree, but some are harder than others on JOINTS like winstrol. People do get shoulder injuries in the joints too, and many complain of pain and stiffness from winstrol especially. But as far as tendons go the stronger your muscles get in a shorter period of time the tendons will become that much more obsolete and cannot handle the loads and flexibility demands placed on them.

[HDH]

Originally Posted by jsupstarz

Well Muscle size and strength increase, but the strength and elasticity of tendons and ligaments do not. As a result, tendon inflammation, ligament inflammation occur making the end product a weaker tendon. Deca is really good for lubricating joints, although tendons are ultimatley not joints. Many people have gotten this devastating injury while on Deca only. And ALL steroids weaken tendons to some degree, but some are harder than others on JOINTS like winstrol. People do get shoulder injuries in the joints too, and many complain of pain and stiffness from winstrol especially. But as far as tendons go the stronger your muscles get in a shorter period of time the tendons will become that much more obsolete and cannot handle the loads and flexibility demands placed on them.

I have had a pretty tough time with one of my shoulders. The Deca helps a lot. I injured it the first time doing heavy front laterals while on Tren. I can flat bench and incline pretty good but I have a hard time with declines. I don't really go super heavy like I used to on my shoulders anymore but eventually I would like to get back to it.

HDH

[jsupstarz]

Yeah deca helps the actual shoulder joint, so that could be beneficial.

[bigcountry76]

I was thinking about what jsup is going to think after I type this.

But what about HGH? I know you said in earlier post that you shouldn't be your own doctor. But i am curious if you know that HGH will help with tendons has well has muscle.

[dennis]

good stuff jsups...if you guys remember i put up a post sevral months back about changing anything to your work out routines in months prior to your cycle...most guys replied with..I do not change a thing.I was referring to taking a few weeks off right before you cycle or going lighter weights and higher reps for 30 days prior to cycle to let the tendons catch up to the muscle growth.i actually went higher reps and lighter weights before this last cycle started..i also took 7 days off right before i started.I had tennis elbow for 8 months up to that point and it was 90% healed and wanted to give it a rest.my very 1st bench day on 1st injection day ..guess what..on my 1st set(light flat bench about 4-5 reps in on way up(not down) i felt pain in shoulder right where you are describing.I worked my way through it..which was idiotic and have been in pain for 4 weeks.all i can do on chest day is inclined with like 135 lbs and light dumbells like 45 's inclined..I have chosen to stay on cycle and work legs and back extra hard this time..and go light as hell on shoulders..which sucks because I have great size on both of those groups ! heat and ice and ibuprofin all help..I feel like a pud in gym with freaking 1 45 on each side of the barbell when benching !

[jsupstarz]

Originally Posted by bigcountry76

I was thinking about what jsup is going to think after I type this.

But what about HGH? I know you said in earlier post that you shouldn't be your own doctor. But i am curious if you know that HGH will help with tendons has well has muscle.

It depends. If your injurys are complete avulisions, tears etc. They can only be fixed by surgies and not hgh. HGH can be beneficial in slightly weaked areas of tendons and up to partial tears wear rest is required. But you won't know until you get looked at and poss. mri's done. So in some cases it could help tendon elasticity and speed up the healing process, and some surgery is your only option. Depends on the specific problem.