Starting to worry about coming off cycle.....

[BubbaEarl]

After reading some horror stories on the Mens Health Board (HRT Board), I am worrying about the post cycle crash. If a PCT is done correctly, how long does it take to be back to normal? What can I expect to happen when the cycle is over? How will I feel mentally? I am a few days into my 4th week and I have not noticed any testicle atrophy. Specs. 300 Test E and 200 Deca 1xweek. I have reintroduced 50 Winstrol last Thursday. I have notice that I have more energy, increased sex drive, increased muscle and leanness. I am loving it. I consider my cycle modest. What do you guys think about the level of AAS I am using? My Test levels were considered average before I started. I want to continue the benefits of AAS, so I guess once you start, there is no turning back. Thanks

[MrBman]

your cycle is very mild in respect to anabolic substances in bodybuilding ... i think your just stressing more than anything ... if it makes you feel better, use hcg to get the boys upto par ... though you probably wont need it, it never really hurts ... drop the deca two weeks before the test.. drop the stanozol when you drop the deca or test your call, that way your body will leave the cycle with the hormone it is most familiar with - testosterone - it will make recovery easier ... use hcg for two weeks ... and then use nolvadex

Supporting supps:
at this time you may want to include things like creatine, tribulus and NO (or arginine, same bloody thing - wait an hour after consumption - arginine turns into NO ... cheaper-just as effective) ... creatine is absolutely solid - tribulus needs to be taken in high dosages to be effective ...

Sides: ill run you through the ones i felt - Depression - it was severely enhanced by clomid - use nolvadex instead - you dont want to find out if your sensative to high dosagesof comlid - well unless you want to feel like a woman on her period - , need or desire to sleep more, lack of enthusiasm at the gym, lack of desire to train - other than that i was good - oh one more biggie....

lack of sexual drive for about a week (6weeks outve my cycle)... yes i could still get hard, but did i want sex - during this week or two ... NO... funny how met more girls these two weeks then i did my whole cycle - somtimes i think god likes to joke with me, because the girls that were flocking to me was rediculous ... thats another story ...

What todo: two words - MAN UP ... these words are golden, seriously whatever you feel like, its all in your head ... 50percent of the way you think or feel on anabolics is mental - feeling like the man, feeling so good - its all in your head ... so stay positive, and just tell yourself 3/4 weeks and ill keep my gains ... if you cycle off properly, use hcg - proceed with nolva ... you'll be fine ... serms will be the key to your test ... slowly taper off the nolva, dont get off till your fully feeling fine ... and dont be stupid and stay on the juice too long ... its a great feeling to be on gear ... but feeling normal off it is pricess

oh and one more thing ... - the thing i heard was worst about post cycle was the fat gain ... i heard it was huge, you should watch out for it that was bullshit .... my man Big Bench told me to eat, im glad i heard him out, - i kept all my gains less 5pounds ... EAT EAT EAT EAT EAT .... post cycle is a time a of great catabolic activity ... beleive me or not - if you eat ample calories your muscles will not break down ... you wont even gain fat - give or take a percent or two (BF wise) ...

oh and keep your training to 40minutes no more - keep intense as hell - but get your ass in and out ... you'll be fine man ... i hope that helped - its 2:30am - so it might not be the most sensible post -

[andysutils]

hope it helped???? Dam MrBman this has just been oficially c&p into my workout folder on my pc :d
Nice post bro

[Twinpeak1]

Really helpful. Thanks MrBman.

[BubbaEarl]

Originally Posted by MrBman

your cycle is very mild in respect to anabolic substances in bodybuilding ... i think your just stressing more than anything ... if it makes you feel better, use hcg to get the boys upto par ... though you probably wont need it, it never really hurts ... drop the deca two weeks before the test.. drop the stanozol when you drop the deca or test your call, that way your body will leave the cycle with the hormone it is most familiar with - testosterone - it will make recovery easier ... use hcg for two weeks ... and then use nolvadex

Supporting supps:
at this time you may want to include things like creatine, tribulus and NO (or arginine, same bloody thing - wait an hour after consumption - arginine turns into NO ... cheaper-just as effective) ... creatine is absolutely solid - tribulus needs to be taken in high dosages to be effective ...

Sides: ill run you through the ones i felt - Depression - it was severely enhanced by clomid - use nolvadex instead - you dont want to find out if your sensative to high dosagesof comlid - well unless you want to feel like a woman on her period - , need or desire to sleep more, lack of enthusiasm at the gym, lack of desire to train - other than that i was good - oh one more biggie....

lack of sexual drive for about a week (6weeks outve my cycle)... yes i could still get hard, but did i want sex - during this week or two ... NO... funny how met more girls these two weeks then i did my whole cycle - somtimes i think god likes to joke with me, because the girls that were flocking to me was rediculous ... thats another story ...

What todo: two words - MAN UP ... these words are golden, seriously whatever you feel like, its all in your head ... 50percent of the way you think or feel on anabolics is mental - feeling like the man, feeling so good - its all in your head ... so stay positive, and just tell yourself 3/4 weeks and ill keep my gains ... if you cycle off properly, use hcg - proceed with nolva ... you'll be fine ... serms will be the key to your test ... slowly taper off the nolva, dont get off till your fully feeling fine ... and dont be stupid and stay on the juice too long ... its a great feeling to be on gear ... but feeling normal off it is pricess

oh and one more thing ... - the thing i heard was worst about post cycle was the fat gain ... i heard it was huge, you should watch out for it that was bullshit .... my man Big Bench told me to eat, im glad i heard him out, - i kept all my gains less 5pounds ... EAT EAT EAT EAT EAT .... post cycle is a time a of great catabolic activity ... beleive me or not - if you eat ample calories your muscles will not break down ... you wont even gain fat - give or take a percent or two (BF wise) ...

oh and keep your training to 40minutes no more - keep intense as hell - but get your ass in and out ... you'll be fine man ... i hope that helped - its 2:30am - so it might not be the most sensible post -

Thanks MrBman. I feel a lot better. When should I start the next cycle. I think that I would would like to be minor cycle more often than a major one less frequently. I am also taking Anastrazole every 3 days during the cycle.

[LifeSize]

Originally Posted by MrBman

your cycle is very mild in respect to anabolic substances in bodybuilding ... i think your just stressing more than anything ... if it makes you feel better, use hcg to get the boys upto par ... though you probably wont need it, it never really hurts ... drop the deca two weeks before the test.. drop the stanozol when you drop the deca or test your call, that way your body will leave the cycle with the hormone it is most familiar with - testosterone - it will make recovery easier ... use hcg for two weeks ... and then use nolvadex

Supporting supps:
at this time you may want to include things like creatine, tribulus and NO (or arginine, same bloody thing - wait an hour after consumption - arginine turns into NO ... cheaper-just as effective) ... creatine is absolutely solid - tribulus needs to be taken in high dosages to be effective ...

Sides: ill run you through the ones i felt - Depression - it was severely enhanced by clomid - use nolvadex instead - you dont want to find out if your sensative to high dosagesof comlid - well unless you want to feel like a woman on her period - , need or desire to sleep more, lack of enthusiasm at the gym, lack of desire to train - other than that i was good - oh one more biggie....

lack of sexual drive for about a week (6weeks outve my cycle)... yes i could still get hard, but did i want sex - during this week or two ... NO... funny how met more girls these two weeks then i did my whole cycle - somtimes i think god likes to joke with me, because the girls that were flocking to me was rediculous ... thats another story ...

What todo: two words - MAN UP ... these words are golden, seriously whatever you feel like, its all in your head ... 50percent of the way you think or feel on anabolics is mental - feeling like the man, feeling so good - its all in your head ... so stay positive, and just tell yourself 3/4 weeks and ill keep my gains ... if you cycle off properly, use hcg - proceed with nolva ... you'll be fine ... serms will be the key to your test ... slowly taper off the nolva, dont get off till your fully feeling fine ... and dont be stupid and stay on the juice too long ... its a great feeling to be on gear ... but feeling normal off it is pricess

oh and one more thing ... - the thing i heard was worst about post cycle was the fat gain ... i heard it was huge, you should watch out for it that was bullshit .... my man Big Bench told me to eat, im glad i heard him out, - i kept all my gains less 5pounds ... EAT EAT EAT EAT EAT .... post cycle is a time a of great catabolic activity ... beleive me or not - if you eat ample calories your muscles will not break down ... you wont even gain fat - give or take a percent or two (BF wise) ...

oh and keep your training to 40minutes no more - keep intense as hell - but get your ass in and out ... you'll be fine man ... i hope that helped - its 2:30am - so it might not be the most sensible post -

Nice post bro.. BB don't lie!

[dennis]

Originally Posted by BubbaEarl

Thanks MrBman. I feel a lot better. When should I start the next cycle. I think that I would would like to be minor cycle more often than a major one less frequently. I am also taking Anastrazole every 3 days during the cycle.

Good job bman ! One thing that will determine how fast you come back to normal is your age and of course where your levels were before the cycle started.About the next cycle: Some guys will tell you time on = time off..in other words if you cycle 12 weeks it is cool to take off 12 weeks and cycle again.I disagree with this theory..If you are not a professional bb you should cycle 1 time per year..maybe 2 if levels are fine and you are healthy.This is why when you plan a cycle you should plan it correctly and get the most out of it..from eating,to lifting,to resting to pct etc....Now the question: Is it better to run a 16 week cycle once per year or 3 eight week cycles per year ?????

[BubbaEarl]

Originally Posted by dennis

Good job bman ! One thing that will determine how fast you come back to normal is your age and of course where your levels were before the cycle started.About the next cycle: Some guys will tell you time on = time off..in other words if you cycle 12 weeks it is cool to take off 12 weeks and cycle again.I disagree with this theory..If you are not a professional bb you should cycle 1 time per year..maybe 2 if levels are fine and you are healthy.This is why when you plan a cycle you should plan it correctly and get the most out of it..from eating,to lifting,to resting to pct etc....Now the question: Is it better to run a 16 week cycle once per year or 3 eight week cycles per year ?????

Dennis, that is a great questions. My Test levels were average when I started. I like being above average like I am now. I turn 40 4/1 and I like being horny like I was in my 20's. It is important to me to maintain above average Test levels for most of the year. That probably would not work with one long 16 week cycle a year. Reason would make me believe that 3 8 week cycles well place apart would work better for my goals. Vitality and leanness are my primary goals and mass is secondary. BigBench suggested HRT for me and I agree that is a good idea, but I want a little more than just HRT. I have trained for 20 years and want a little help for all the effort I am putting in. Maybe HRT and a couple of modest cycles a year would be what I needed for my goals. Like I said, I have average Test levels and want to be at the top end of the range. My "boys" are producing enough to make me average and I want to be careful not to mess that up and end up producing less than average because I am doing AAS. I am learning and I appreciate you guys sharing your experience.

[jmills]

Bubba, How much Arimidex (Anastrazole) are you taking E3D? I assume you are taking this to help control the test bloat...but if you don't NEED it then stop taking it. This stuff seriously reduces Estrogen, so much so that at pretty moderate dosages it can take Estrogen to undectible levels....not good if you want to have healthy joints and larger muscles

Also, I have to chime in here re cycle length. The general rule of thumb is time on+ PCT equals Time Off...so on a 12 week cycle, with (for me, anyway) a 6 week PCT = 18 weeks. So using this formula I can ALMOST get 3 cycles in a year, but I'm not pushing it. I like to take a bit more time off just to be sure things are on line.
(Currently on my 2nd cycle, 5'7" @ 200 lbs and a little fat right now at 12%....well TECHNICALLY this is my third, but I don't count the first one that I had no freakin idea what I was doing and did no PCT and walked around with the test levels of a 13 year old girl for most of a year as a result...this was pre Meso for me...I feel very fortunate to have found this board).

Anyway, I think if you start doing this at our age then you are probably looking at some type of HRT sooner or later, just my opinion. I go into it believing that the odds are I will have to do something like this the rest of my active life...which judging from my family history will be another 50 years or so . My point is...you make the decision based on what you want vs what you are willing to risk. My dad always told me you can do anything you want to do...ANYTHING...if you are wiling to pay the price. He said think of the worst possible thing that could happen...can you handle that? If the answer is "no"...dont do it. If the answer is "yes", then do it like you do not have a care or concern about it, do it like you fukin MEAN IT and to hell with the consequences. And there, children, is your redneck philosophy moment of the day.

Best regards,
Jmills

[BubbaEarl]

Originally Posted by jmills

Bubba, How much Arimidex (Anastrazole) are you taking E3D? I assume you are taking this to help control the test bloat...but if you don't NEED it then stop taking it. This stuff seriously reduces Estrogen, so much so that at pretty moderate dosages it can take Estrogen to undectible levels....not good if you want to have healthy joints and larger muscles

Also, I have to chime in here re cycle length. The general rule of thumb is time on+ PCT equals Time Off...so on a 12 week cycle, with (for me, anyway) a 6 week PCT = 18 weeks. So using this formula I can ALMOST get 3 cycles in a year, but I'm not pushing it. I like to take a bit more time off just to be sure things are on line.
(Currently on my 2nd cycle, 5'7" @ 200 lbs and a little fat right now at 12%....well TECHNICALLY this is my third, but I don't count the first one that I had no freakin idea what I was doing and did no PCT and walked around with the test levels of a 13 year old girl for most of a year as a result...this was pre Meso for me...I feel very fortunate to have found this board).

Anyway, I think if you start doing this at our age then you are probably looking at some type of HRT sooner or later, just my opinion. I go into it believing that the odds are I will have to do something like this the rest of my active life...which judging from my family history will be another 50 years or so . My point is...you make the decision based on what you want vs what you are willing to risk. My dad always told me you can do anything you want to do...ANYTHING...if you are wiling to pay the price. He said think of the worst possible thing that could happen...can you handle that? If the answer is "no"...dont do it. If the answer is "yes", then do it like you do not have a care or concern about it, do it like you fukin MEAN IT and to hell with the consequences. And there, children, is your redneck philosophy moment of the day.

Best regards,
Jmills

jmill - I keep all my Amridix and everything else at work. I will let you know how much tomorrow. I want to know your opinion on it. I have made my mind up to do it and need to relax and do it as safe as possible

[jasthace]

When on cycle the body adjusts to the extra anabolic hormones by producing extra cortisone,as it trys to maintain homeostasis.
What always amazes me is the lack of consideration of this fact when it comes to PCT.
Theres always the hcg & antiestrogens.....but nothing to combat the elevated cortisone.Cortisone is the is colprate that steels your hard earned muscle gains,as it remains high after cycle for a period before the body once again obtains homeostasis.{weeks}
DHEA is a cheap effective anticortisol and clenbuterol is another.

[jmills]

that's a good point jastace, and the reason I have included 3 gram of vit C (divided doses, but always pre & post w/o) and a low dose aspirin every morning and night during PCT. AND a damn good reason to follow the short intense w/o schedule listed above. Also I use 6 grams of phosphaditlesterine (sp?) during PCT for its anti cortisol properties...thanks to HDH and Maxrep for all their advise in helping me structure my PCT. I agree with you that this may be a very overlooked aspect of a great PCT. thanks for bringing this into the conversation, maybe some of the vets will chime in with some more advice.

[dennis]

Jmills..you bring interesting point about time off = time on plus pct..and that is the correct way to go about it..some guys do not get that though and will cycle 12,take off 12,cycle 12 ..etc..and think they can do this for along period of time with no consequence.The vets will all tell you though 2 cycles per year tops for an average guy that does not compete but uses steroids to get stronger/bigger.Bubba..sounds like you are a good candidate for hrt later on in your life.I too am 43 and have low libido when I am off cycle..the more cycles I have done the lower the libido after cycle and the longer pct is needed.I have toyed with the idea of putting myself on long term low dose test.I think one very important item we must use during test usage is hcg.....

[BubbaEarl]

Originally Posted by jasthace

When on cycle the body adjusts to the extra anabolic hormones by producing extra cortisone,as it trys to maintain homeostasis.
What always amazes me is the lack of consideration of this fact when it comes to PCT.
Theres always the hcg & antiestrogens.....but nothing to combat the elevated cortisone.Cortisone is the is colprate that steels your hard earned muscle gains,as it remains high after cycle for a period before the body once again obtains homeostasis.{weeks}
DHEA is a cheap effective anticortisol and clenbuterol is another.

jasthace - I take DHEA now everyday. How much do I need to take when I start my PCT?

[BubbaEarl]

Originally Posted by jmills

Bubba, How much Arimidex (Anastrazole) are you taking E3D? I assume you are taking this to help control the test bloat...but if you don't NEED it then stop taking it. This stuff seriously reduces Estrogen, so much so that at pretty moderate dosages it can take Estrogen to undectible levels....not good if you want to have healthy joints and larger muscles

Also, I have to chime in here re cycle length. The general rule of thumb is time on+ PCT equals Time Off...so on a 12 week cycle, with (for me, anyway) a 6 week PCT = 18 weeks. So using this formula I can ALMOST get 3 cycles in a year, but I'm not pushing it. I like to take a bit more time off just to be sure things are on line.
(Currently on my 2nd cycle, 5'7" @ 200 lbs and a little fat right now at 12%....well TECHNICALLY this is my third, but I don't count the first one that I had no freakin idea what I was doing and did no PCT and walked around with the test levels of a 13 year old girl for most of a year as a result...this was pre Meso for me...I feel very fortunate to have found this board).

Anyway, I think if you start doing this at our age then you are probably looking at some type of HRT sooner or later, just my opinion. I go into it believing that the odds are I will have to do something like this the rest of my active life...which judging from my family history will be another 50 years or so . My point is...you make the decision based on what you want vs what you are willing to risk. My dad always told me you can do anything you want to do...ANYTHING...if you are wiling to pay the price. He said think of the worst possible thing that could happen...can you handle that? If the answer is "no"...dont do it. If the answer is "yes", then do it like you do not have a care or concern about it, do it like you fukin MEAN IT and to hell with the consequences. And there, children, is your redneck philosophy moment of the day.

Best regards,
Jmills

jmills - Getting back to you on the Anastrazole. I am taking 1.0 mg a day