The end had to come...

[jrod196]

I fininshed my 10 week Test E/EQ cycle last tuesday. I was very happy with my results. I started the cycle weighing in at 195 and finished at 213-215. I am very please with a 20lb. increase, as I got a real bad cold the last 3 weeks. My strenght increases were great. Bench went from 235 to about 300!! I know for alot of you that is lame, but for me, who has struggled with chest, thats phenominal!! I didn't notice that many sides except for acne and a little bloat, nothing major. At one point, my nips felt a tad sensitive, so i jumped on .5mg of Adex quick to stop that. Other than that, I am very pleased with my results. My pct protocol will be Nolvadex in the following way:
First week after last shot 20mg Nolva/ED
2nd and 3rd week: 40mg Nolva/ED
4th: 20mg/ed
5th:10mg/ed

Does anyone disagree with this? It doesn't appear I have that much testicular atrophy, but thats just eyeing them.

Thanks to all you guys who had words of encouragement, great tips, constructive criticism and shared your knowledge. Now, to plan my next cycel

Thanks!

[litterbox]

Congrats bro.

When did you notice the EQ start to kicki n?

[jrod196]

I'd say week 3 and 4 is when I started to notice my strength going up and the scale really starting to move. The other thing I've noticed was how I would never be that sore as when i'm off cycle. I'm sore as shit today!

[litterbox]

Originally Posted by jrod196

I'd say week 3 and 4 is when I started to notice my strength going up and the scale really starting to move. The other thing I've noticed was how I would never be that sore as when i'm off cycle. I'm sore as shit today!

haha

How much weight were you gaining per week, after week 3-4?

[jrod196]

2-3 lbs.

[Ramstein II]

Hopefully a good vet like Van Man will chime in. I'm no expert, but I do not think you'll be recovered in five weeks total. It takes 3 weeks (maybe 4) for all the gear just to clear from your system. Also, according to some anything beyond 20 mg of Nolva is a waste. I'm on week 4 and I'm at my lowest T levels right now. My PCT is approx. 9 weeks long total: 2 weeks HCG and 7 weeks Nolva with a long taper. The research I've seen on Nolva ( and I suspect clomid) is that it will greatly increase E2 levels so you better taper or you'll shock your HPTA with high estrogen levels. Also, Nolva is estrogenic in the liver meaning it will cause an increase in SHBG and an increase in cortisol binding globulin--so you better taper. I don't know where people get this idea that they will be recovered in like 4-5 weeks total. I just hope these people aren't starting another after such a short recovery phase.

[jrod196]

Isn't it fair to say AAS affects each persons system differently? I've seen arguments in favor of both ways. Really its trial and error when it comes to pct. A few years back, clomid was the must have for PCT. Thanks for your input though bro. I will definately look into that.

[Preacher]

Hey bro, I would stick with the nolva for 6 weeks. Try that and see maybe. everyones body is diffrent so who know how u will take.

I will be doing 20mg of nova for 6 weeks. I have plenty more just in case i need to go longer.

Let me know how you react to the Nolva.

[jrod196]

Maybe I should, just to keep my levels balanced.

[Ramstein II]

Bro, check out this link. First, I don't agree with the PCT advice on it. But the chart showing how T levels decline after the last shot and LH levels begin climbing immediately is very helpful and interesting. Note these people were on Test Cyp 250 mg for 21 weeks, so their recovery is probably longer. You can see that they took 19 weeks to recover without any assistance from HCG or Nolva.

But what's interesting is that LH levels began climbing immediately. Nolva should speed this up and get LH levels above natural baseline levels quickly to get your slow moving balls to produce T again. You can see that the lowest T levels (in absence of HCG or Nolva) is at week 5 even though LH levels were already over half way to normal. Interesting. That's why I'm running my PCT longer and will wait a long time before I would do another cycle.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/par31.htm

[Ramstein II]

BTW, I disagree with this theory partly because you can see that T doesn't budge until LH hit about the natural baseline level at week 10. I think that anything below baseline LH levels is just not going to do much of anything for the testes. Also, E will be present even in the case of low T levels, so shrouding the Hypothalimus with Nolva will increase T levels. He argues that E is low so nolva does little to increase LH if T is low. I disagree. There's a study showing how this bodybuilder's HPTA was completely shut down from steroid abuse over 8 mos. He recovered from 100mg of clomid for like 4 weeks. This study shows that Clomid got the balls working again on this bodybuilder even though T levels and hence E levels were already very low. I can't find the study right now.

[Ramstein II]

Edit to last post: Here's the study. Very interesting stuff:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1022657

[van-man]

PCT is about normalization of hormone levels, not just restarting them. If you only stay on long enough to restart production, you will stand a good chance of suffering a relapse.

You can run over 20mg of nolva for added estrogen protection, but you will see no added benefit to the stimulation of LH production over 20mg.
I would recommend a six week standard of 40/20/20/20/20/20, followed by a taper starting from 20 to 10 - 5 - 2.5 - 0. You can drop the dose every three to five days. The taper is your insurance policy that will guarantee that the PCT sticks.

[atomicone]

Your PCT plan using Nolvadex looks good to me (Van-Man's recommendation is a little better though), but you might want to try some low dose HCG 3x per week for 2 weeks.

Congrats Bro!

[jrod196]

Originally Posted by van-man

PCT is about normalization of hormone levels, not just restarting them. If you only stay on long enough to restart production, you will stand a good chance of suffering a relapse.

You can run over 20mg of nolva for added estrogen protection, but you will see no added benefit to the stimulation of LH production over 20mg.
I would recommend a six week standard of 40/20/20/20/20/20, followed by a taper starting from 20 to 10 - 5 - 2.5 - 0. You can drop the dose every three to five days. The taper is your insurance policy that will guarantee that the PCT sticks.

Thanks Van. I agree with your taper. This sounds like a better way to keep everything stabilized.