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Old 12-13-2004, 03:06 PM
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Default The Use of Dianabol as a Supplement

Hi, I just pulled this of another forum and wondered what your thoughts are on the subject.


The Use of Dianabol as a Supplement
Article by Bransholme (MuscleTalk Member)

This article was originally intended to be a history of the anabolic steroid dianabol and it's usage in bodybuilding, but there is little real evidence of how it was used in previous decades. However, in the course of research, I have come to the conclusion that current use of dianabol as a supplement is not as efficient as it could be. Most of the modern thoughts on dianabol use reflect around myths and irrelevant scientific studies; this article attempts to explain new ways of thinking on dianabol usage using scientific evidence and people's experiences.

Dianabol (or dbol as it's commonly called) is one of the most commonly used oral steroids. Its chemical name is methanedienone or methandrostenolone and there are many different pharmaceutical and generic varieties including Anabol and Naposim. In this article we look at lower dose usage of dianabol as a supplement, as opposed to using pro-hormones or pro-steroids.

Liver Toxicity of Dianabol
The 17 alpha-alkylated properties of methanedienone do make it liver toxic, but this, I believe, is overstated as most of the evidence of its toxicity comes from studies on individuals and not from studies on large groups of dianabol-using bodybuilders. One study on rats (1) showed that regardless of dose or time of administration, dianabol produces changes in enzymatic activity, which leads to hypertrophy of hepatocytes; which basically shows that dianabol is toxic to the liver. But in another study (2) Nerobol (Russian Dianabol) was found to favour a rapid normalisation of functional and metabolic disorders of the liver, which contradicts the earlier evidence. This shows that the whole idea of dianabol being dangerous is in no way as bad as some would make out.

Benefits of Dianabol Use
Dianabol has been shown to increase anaerobic glycolysis (3), which increases lactic acid build up in the body. This is beneficial because lactic acid is used by the muscles to form glycogen, which in turn provides energy in anaerobic metabolism. Lactic acid is also a key chemical in the disposal of dietary carbohydrates, which means you are less likely to get fat while using dianabol.

A study on osteoporosis (4) showed that at a dosage of just 2.5mg per day for 9 months dianabol was more effective than calcium supplementation in reducing osteoporotic activity, it was also shown to increase muscle mass more effectively. Another study on osteoporosis (5) which lasted 24 months, showed just how dianabol works on osteoporosis; dianabol increased total body calcium, and also total body potassium. This may not mean much to you as a bodybuilder, but the actions of calcium are very important to bodybuilders, as it transports large numbers of amino acids and also creatine and these two things are vital in muscle growth. Potassium is also very important, as it assists in muscle contractions, transmitting nerve signals, and insulin release; so it is also a very anabolic substance.

One very interesting study (6), although not significant in bodybuilding terms, showed that dianabol increases the sensitivity of laryngeal tumour cells to radiotherapy, and concluded 'recommending this hormone to be used during radiotherapy of patients with the laryngeal cancer'.

How to Cycle Dianabol
To create a cycle for dianabol that is based around using it more as a supplement than a steroid, we first need to look at the current trend for cycling dianabol and analyse what is wrong with it. An average cycle of Dianabol is usually structured as 25-40mg split throughout each day for 4-6 weeks, either alone or stacked with other steroids.

Firstly a dose of 25mg or more commonly causes water retention. It is well known that dianabol does aromatise quite easily, and most of the water retention is usually attributed to a build up of excess estrogen. However, it is my belief that initially water retention is caused by the body holding on to water due to the effects of dianabol on the body's mineral balance, in particular the potassium/sodium balance. This coupled with the fact that dianabol cause estrogenic side effects, leads to a lot of water build-up, and as there is little we can do about the change in the bodies mineral balance, the only other thing we can do is try to reduce aromatisation, usually with Nolvadex (tamoxifen) or other anti-estrogens. This is not the only method though, by reducing the dose, less of the drug will aromatise, which leads to less estrogen and more importantly less water retention. Reducing the drug during a cycle would lead to estrogen levels dropping slowly, so we should start the cycle with a lower dose of 10-20mg each day.

Splitting the dosage when you are using a low dose is virtually pointless, as you will get a much smaller peak of the drug. So in this case it is best to take it in a single dose in the morning (preferably with grapefruit juice). Although this will not prevent suppression of natural testosterone, it may lessen it to a certain degree, as your body will still have lengthy periods later in the day when there is little testosterone circulating, and so it may still produce some.

Now if we look at cycle duration, 4-6 weeks seems too short to have any real effect at a low dose, but how can we use dianabol for longer without placing more risk on our liver? The solution is actually quite simple; by taking weekends off from the drug we will give our livers a break from processing the drug. Due to the short half-life any active substances will be out of our system within 24 hours of your last dose, now this may seem like it will cost you gains, but in actual fact it will cost you little or no losses in the long run as even though there is no active drug in the body the effects are still present i.e. extra intramuscular water, and a more anabolic mineral balance. These effects usually taper off over several days. This method will not however, help your natural testosterone to return from its inhibited state, as this process can take considerably longer. If we take weekends off and use a lower dose, we should in theory be able to use dianabol for 10 weeks with no problems. A simple bit of mathematics can show this point best:


6 weeks @25mg each day = 1050mg of Dianabol in total
10 weeks with weekends off @15mg each day = 750mg of Dianabol in total
So as you can see, by using this system your liver will actually process less dianabol than in a conventional cycle, add this to the fact that you can make gains for 10 weeks instead of 6, and with fewer side effects, and you get a very solid cycle.

Summary
This Cycle Theory can be applied in many different situations, for instance a beginner could use the dianabol on it's own for 10 weeks and gain very well. A more experienced steroid user could use this alongside an injectable cycle for very good gains too, getting the benefit of the initial quick gains of the Dianabol, with the slower but stronger gains of an injectable.

This cycle may seem to go against many of the current trends of dianabol use, but I believe that by using dianabol as a supplement to good training and nutrition you can make very good gains.

References



Effects of methandrostenolone on liver morphology and enzymatic activity. Nesterin MF, Budik VM, Narodetskaia RV, Solov'eva GI, Stoianova VG.
An experimental study of the hepatoprotective properties of phytoecdysteroids and Nerobol in carbon tetrachloride induce liver lesions. Syrov VN, Khushbaktova ZA, Nabiev AN.
Effects of methanedienone (methandrostenolone) on energy processes and carbohydrate metabolism in rat liver cells. Serakovskii S, Mats'koviak Iu.
Calcium, vitamin D and anabolic steroid treatment of aged bones: double-blind placebo-controlled long-term clinical trial. Inkovaara J, Gothoni G, Halttula R, Heikinheimo R, Tokola O.
Changes in body composition following therapy of osteoporosis with methandrostenolone. Mann V, Benko AB, Kocsar LT.
Radiomodifying effect of methandrostenolone on laryngeal cancer cells. Bordiushkov IuN, Kucherova TI, Kisliakova ND, Vagner VP, Zubkova TV

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Old 12-13-2004, 05:56 PM
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Default Cramping from d-bol use...

I started a cycle of 25 mg's of d-bol a day and after a couple of weeks starting getting cramps. The cramps were worst in my back but I alos had them in my calves. WOuld you know the reason for this?

Dante
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Old 12-13-2004, 06:19 PM
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First of all if your doing dbol alone your going to lose almost everything you gained. You should definately be using an injectable such as Test with your dbol. Stick around here and educate yourself. The search button should be your best friend for a while, and then if you have a question make a post.

Lower bak pumps, and cramps are quite common with dbol. Unless it is affecting your training, I would stick it out. Try drinking more water. I would suggest at least a gallon/day.
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Old 12-13-2004, 06:24 PM
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I was getting cramps in my lower back from D-Bol also.
As far as I know, this is from water retention.
So, I tried a little lasix this time (20mg ED 3-4 days) after being on the D-Bol for about a week. So far not a trace of lower back pain.
I would not use the Lasix that often though. Maybe Twice during a 4 week run of D-Bol at the begining of a cycle.
Diuretics can be very dangerous! In moderation only!

JMHO graybass
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Old 12-13-2004, 09:37 PM
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I'll second that!


Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpg13
First of all if your doing dbol alone your going to lose almost everything you gained. You should definately be using an injectable such as Test with your dbol. Stick around here and educate yourself. The search button should be your best friend for a while, and then if you have a question make a post.

Lower bak pumps, and cramps are quite common with dbol. Unless it is affecting your training, I would stick it out. Try drinking more water. I would suggest at least a gallon/day.
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Old 12-14-2004, 01:14 AM
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what was the reasoning behind no test shut down? Just because it was less mg's total than what he considered a typical 6 week cycle doesnt mean anything. I think that is a big factor he is missing in that little article.

Sure you might make slightly better than normal gains but they arent going to be worth shit if you were taking just enough to shut you down. And even though 15mgs a day doesnt seem like much I have read studies saying as little as 10mgs a day for an extended use can shut down you natural t

-the Colonel
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Old 12-14-2004, 03:19 AM
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colonel, this notion that it wont shut down endogenous test is predicated on the theory that dbol's short half life (of about 6 hours) will not preclude the body from producing its natural test spike in the early stages of sleep. This theory is based on the user taking dbol in the morning. Its something which is difficult to gauge and fairly speculative IMO.

bump for more responses on dbol at 15mg a day. What do you reckon max?
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Old 12-14-2004, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the Colonel
what was the reasoning behind no test shut down? Just because it was less mg's total than what he considered a typical 6 week cycle doesnt mean anything. I think that is a big factor he is missing in that little article.

Sure you might make slightly better than normal gains but they arent going to be worth shit if you were taking just enough to shut you down. And even though 15mgs a day doesnt seem like much I have read studies saying as little as 10mgs a day for an extended use can shut down you natural t

-the Colonel
Colonel is right.
Back in day when Dbol was legal to obtain, it was understood that visible (nut shrinkage) shutdown would happen around 6 weeks. It is not worth the gains you recieve.
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Old 12-14-2004, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brbb
colonel, this notion that it wont shut down endogenous test is predicated on the theory that dbol's short half life (of about 6 hours) will not preclude the body from producing its natural test spike in the early stages of sleep. This theory is based on the user taking dbol in the morning. Its something which is difficult to gauge and fairly speculative IMO.

bump for more responses on dbol at 15mg a day. What do you reckon max?
I don't think the original poster was saying natural Test shutdown wouldn't occur, I see where he's theorizing it will occur slower with his program.

As far as the original posters basic idea of using a lower dose of dbol for 10 weeks, instead of a higher dose for 6 weeks, I don't see anything wrong with that when it's part of a stack. It would completely change the purpose of using the dbol and so not be applicable to every cycle. As far as using dbol at a low dosage alone, the gains wouldn't be much but it could be done for a few specialized situations. For most bodybuilders/powerlifters seeking to gain maximum muscle/strength, it wouldn't work very well.

Regarding using dbol at 15mg/day and its effect on natural Test... there is a significant impact. Swale and I agree there's a significant HPTA impact at this dosage and it's not something to do as a "bridge". The following study shows it takes just 4 weeks at 15mg/day before the body's Test/sperm is affected.

MaxRep
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1: Contraception. 1977 Feb;15(2):151-62.

Effects of an anabolic steroid (metandienone) (aka: Dianabol) on spermatogenesis.

Holma PK.

PIP: The effect of the oral administration of metandienone (15 mg/day), an anabolic steroid, on spermatogenesis was studied in 15 male athletes. The sperm density per ml decreased 46% after 1 month of use and 73% after 2 months: the latter value being highly pathologic. 3 subjects became azoospermic, 1 of whom had only 1 million sperms/ml. The percentage of motile sperms decreased to about 30% after 2 months of use. The percentage of normally configured sperms decreased from 73 to 65% after 1 month and to 42% after 2 months.

There was about a 100% increase in the percentage of sperms with amorphous heads after 2 months of use. There were also marked increases in the frequency of other sperm abnormalities. After 2 months of use, semen acid phosphatase activity was markedly reduced, while semen fructose concentrations were markedly changed after 1 month. The observed changes were reversed after discontinuation of use.

PMID: 837689 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Old 12-15-2004, 09:46 PM
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Default d-bol and back cramps...Mrpg13's answer...

MRPG-13

I was using the d-bol with Sustanon also and have graduated on to equipoise with the sustanon for now and for the next 6 weeks. Just didn't really want to get into all the details in the interest of brevity... but I didn't understand the cramps while on d-bo;, so the question.

Now, I have gotten two answers though... you say drink more water and another member said his use of a diuretic helped him...those seem like conflicting answers to me.

Further advice?

Dante
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantelikesit2
Now, I have gotten two answers though... you say drink more water and another member said his use of a diuretic helped him...those seem like conflicting answers to me.
Further advice?
Dante
Not conflicting at all. The more water you drink, the less water your body retains. So either drinking a lot of water, or taking a diuretic will lessen any water retention/bloating. Drinking more water is easier on your system and obviously a natural way to lessen any water retention although it's going to do so to a lesser extent, and not quite as effectively as a diuretic.

Good luck,
MaxRep
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Old 12-17-2004, 10:26 AM
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Thanks much for the info!

Dante
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Old 12-17-2004, 11:25 PM
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Default dbol and stromba

When is the best to take dbol and it is ok to combine with stromba in 1 cycle....
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