Thoughts on bridging cycle and Contest diet cycle

[Stormbringer]

Hope you like long reads:
I would like your thoughts and help with switching over from my mass cycle to my diet cycle for a show. If I made mistakes with my mass cycle I am sure you all will let me know and I will be corrected for next time.
I have been stacking for 12 weeks or so, I am lieing, 16 weeks or so,
1000 ml of Test cyp Week
4oo ml of Deca a week
6 weeks 0f 20 mg D bol 2 x's a day at start of cycle
50mg of Proviron a day to help with Deca side effects
Liv 52 2x' a day
3000mg of Vit C a day
High dose B Complex
High dose B 6
Calcium and Mag Supp
Multi Vita
Vita A, E supps
Also EFA' in liquid form

June 11th is today
July 14 My training will switch to contest Prep and I have already started cleaning out diet. I am wieghing about 230lbs , 5'11" and about 14-15% BF. I am an extremely hard gainer. I drop BF very quit, most of the time do not even need to do cardio. I want to keep on as much wieght as possible and try to harden it up. I am sure I will still loose a good 20lbs by the time of the show with water and all. I will have 12 weeks after July 14th give or take a day or two to get dieted.

My training partner and I (who is Heavy Wieght NPC National level competitor but knows nothing about gear except what I tell him) were planning to switch over to a different cycle before we start with the dieting in the middle of July / Something like 4 -5 weeks to help cut down on bloating, estrogen and all the other sides. But we are still mass training till then so (1) what do you all recommend for this part, we have five weeks left for that and then (2) how should we phase in to our dieting cycle. I have access to Mastabol A and E, Tren A and E, Primo E amps, D bol, Sust amps, Test E amps, Test C, EQ, Test Susp, Winn Inject, G-Friend stole the anavar for her cycle, Ana 50's and Proviron. (3) When should I be adding, if at all, the ancilliaries like HCG, Clomid and nolva.
I know this is a long read but I would appreciate your thoughts. My friend and I are both kinda old school with this and got out of BB for years. He was actually very successful up until about 1998 when he almost got his pro card in NY. We both have been really back into it over the last 2 years or so primarily because my fiance is getting serious about competing and is starting to drag us back to shows with her that she is competing in now. She is quite a bit younger than us. My point in saying all this is that it seems that just over the last 3-4years the science behind the juice has really changed and a lot of new, far more effective approaches are going on rather than the old stack everything, take more and use Nolva if your tits hurt approach. Not quite that simple in the early 90's but you know what I mean. I am pretty up to date with William LLewellyn's research. I have seen some contradictory info so let me know your thoughts.

[Stormbringer]

I forgot to through in the Therms, when and should I use like Clen and T3?

[HDH]

This is a good one for MaxRep.

HDH

[MaxRep]

Originally Posted by Stormbringer

Hope you like long reads:
I would like your thoughts and help with switching over from my mass cycle to my diet cycle for a show. If I made mistakes with my mass cycle I am sure you all will let me know and I will be corrected for next time.
I have been stacking for 12 weeks or so, I am lieing, 16 weeks or so,
1000 ml of Test cyp Week
4oo ml of Deca a week
6 weeks 0f 20 mg D bol 2 x's a day at start of cycle
50mg of Proviron a day to help with Deca side effects
Liv 52 2x' a day
3000mg of Vit C a day
High dose B Complex
High dose B 6
Calcium and Mag Supp
Multi Vita
Vita A, E supps
Also EFA' in liquid form

June 11th is today
July 14 My training will switch to contest Prep and I have already started cleaning out diet. I am wieghing about 230lbs , 5'11" and about 14-15% BF.

I am an extremely hard gainer. I drop BF very quit, most of the time do not even need to do cardio. I want to keep on as much wieght as possible and try to harden it up. I am sure I will still loose a good 20lbs by the time of the show with water and all. I will have 12 weeks after July 14th give or take a day or two to get dieted.

Know your numbers. At 230 and let's call it 15%BF, you need to drop a solid 23-24 pounds of nothing but fat to be in contest shape. Realistically, you'll also lose a small amount of muscle and water weight. Maybe 1% of BW of each. Which means your most likely contest weight is between 200 and 205. That is very light for someone 5'11".

My training partner and I (who is Heavy Wieght NPC National level competitor but knows nothing about gear except what I tell him) were planning to switch over to a different cycle before we start with the dieting in the middle of July / Something like 4 -5 weeks to help cut down on bloating, estrogen and all the other sides. But we are still mass training till then so

(1) what do you all recommend for this part, we have five weeks left for that and then
There's no reason to change your cycle now, for just 5 weeks. Just keep going as you are. It's not like it matters this far out how much water you're holding.

(2) how should we phase in to our dieting cycle.
At 12 weeks out, just cut over to a cutting cycle. I'm not sure what you mean by "phase in". Just switch over to a pre-contest cycle.

I have access to Mastabol A and E, Tren A and E, Primo E amps, D bol, Sust amps, Test E amps, Test C, EQ, Test Susp, Winn Inject, G-Friend stole the anavar for her cycle, Ana 50's and Proviron.

Based on what you have, your pre-contest cycle would consist primarily of; Tren a or e at between 450-650mg/week, Eq at 600-700mg/week, Primo at 700-1,000mg/week, a little bit of test enan. at 400mg/week until the last 2 weeks then switch over to your Test susp. at 50mg/day up until the a couple days before the contest, proviron at roughly 50mg/day initially and increased to 100mg/week for the last 4 weeks. None of the products mentioned really aromatize much (the Test at low doses isn't a problem), so estrogen won't be much of a problem, However, I'd also add in some arimidex at about 1-2mg/day the last 4 weeks, to eliminate most estrogen and any resulting water.

(3) When should I be adding, if at all, the ancilliaries like HCG, Clomid and nolva.

The HCG can be taken once or twice a week during your cycle to keep the testicles pumping. The clomid I wouldn't take at all. The Novadex and HCG can be taken after your contest as part of your PCT program, to restart your natural Test production. As you're already doing, the nolvadex would also be kept on hand to stop any signs of gyno, should they appear.

The T3 would be run starting about 12-10 weeks out (depending on your BF at that time) right up to the contest. As you say you drop BF fast, you should be fine with 25-50mcg/day, depending on your past experiences. The clen could be run the first 3 weeks of your pre-contest diet to give your fat loss a kick start. Then run it again the last 3 weeks up to the contest to assist with any lingering fat. I'd start at roughly 60mcg/day, go up 20 mcg/day every 2-3 days and top out at about 120-160mcg/day depending on your past experience. No need to taper down, just go off after 3 weeks. Your beta2a receptors will have down-regulated so much by that time that tapering off makes no sense.

One other thing to consider is running LR3IGF-1 as part of your contest prep. You could run it at 12 weeks out for 4 weeks and then take 4 weeks off and run it again the last 4 weeks up until a few days before the show. Run it at 60mcg/day, every day you work out, post workout. You'll like the effect.

I know this is a long read but I would appreciate your thoughts. My friend and I are both kinda old school with this and got out of BB for years. He was actually very successful up until about 1998 when he almost got his pro card in NY. We both have been really back into it over the last 2 years or so primarily because my fiance is getting serious about competing and is starting to drag us back to shows with her that she is competing in now. She is quite a bit younger than us. My point in saying all this is that it seems that just over the last 3-4years the science behind the juice has really changed and a lot of new, far more effective approaches are going on rather than the old stack everything, take more and use Nolva if your tits hurt approach. Not quite that simple in the early 90's but you know what I mean. I am pretty up to date with William LLewellyn's research. I have seen some contradictory info so let me know your thoughts.

Good luck,
MaxRep

[LifeSize]

Originally Posted by MaxRep

Good luck,
MaxRep

You wouldn't recommend Test Prop to minimize bloat? Just wondering your thoughts on why you picked the other two esters, I'm not sure if that's what the OP has available..

[MaxRep]

Originally Posted by LifeSize

You wouldn't recommend Test Prop to minimize bloat? Just wondering your thoughts on why you picked the other two esters, I'm not sure if that's what the OP has available..

Are you saying you think Test prop has less water retention properties than Test susp?

MaxRep

[Stormbringer]

Maxrep and all who have replied, thanks and I will get some more questions and info up after I study this.

[Stormbringer]

I have had good experience with Suspension Test oppossed to Test Prop. Seems to dry and harden me up more than the Prop. does.

[Stormbringer]

2 main reasons I asked about the "bridging cycle". 1) wanted some ideas on maybe more effective ways to move into cardio and high rep workouts as far as the heavier mass cycles go. Thought maybe some new recco's out there for how heavy you feel when on the higher estrogenic ones, 2) Did not know with all the new info out there if was something wrong with just switching to cutting cycle regarding (estro, prolactin, progest, water, elev BP...etc...) like I have done in the past. Never know, thought I should ask. A lot has changed. I really appreciate you alls input.

[MaxRep]

Originally Posted by Stormbringer

I have had good experience with Suspension Test oppossed to Test Prop. Seems to dry and harden me up more than the Prop. does.

Exactly. Run this the last few weeks leading up to the show and you should have the fullness without the water/puffyness.

Best regards,
MaxRep

[MaxRep]

Originally Posted by Stormbringer

2) Did not know with all the new info out there if was something wrong with just switching to cutting cycle regarding (estro, prolactin, progest, water, elev BP...etc...) like I have done in the past. Never know, thought I should ask. A lot has changed.

The more things change, the more they're the same.

You could pretty much do whatever it is you did 15 years ago and with just a few tweaks, be very competitive with what's done by the winners today. Often the most advanced people do the most basic things.

Best regards,
MaxRep

[LifeSize]

Originally Posted by MaxRep

Are you saying you think Test prop has less water retention properties than Test susp?

MaxRep

I thought out of all of them, Test prop was the one to cause least if any bloat. I'm considering it for my first cycle Test Prop and EQ while stacking ephedrine and caffeine (to help with the eq hunger)..some what using it to 'cut'.. I'll go and read some more..heh..

[MaxRep]

Originally Posted by LifeSize

I thought out of all of them, Test prop was the one to cause least if any bloat. I'm considering it for my first cycle ..

That's one of the differences between someone who's sole experience is what they've read on a few boards and someone who's been in the game over 30 years, competed, and first ran an AAS cycle in 1980... probably before many of the people... coughcoughlikeyoucough... here were even born.

Best regards,
MaxRep

[Stormbringer]

Ok Maxrep, I am not sure if that was aimed at me or yourself (the age comment) but I am starting to get a little sensitive here. If you do not think I picked up on the "small" reference you made regarding what I am going to probably wiegh in at in your post above, you are wrong! If I am in tears over this you think I am overreacting? Maybe my estrogen is a little high right now.

[Stormbringer]

I did make a change to my cycle for now until I jump into the cutting cycle mid July. I went to 250 ml eod of Sustanon, I hope you do not think this was a bad idea insted of staying on the 1000ml a week of CYP. I react to Sustanon kinda the same way I described the difference between Suspension and Prop for me. I get harder and do not hold quite as much water as I do on CYP and Enth. Seems to help with BP also. Not much but just enough for me to notice in abs and vascularity. I plan to switch to 250 2x's a week when I start the cutting cycle. Where U mentioned running 400 ml a week of Test E up till the show, do you think it is OK for me to do it this way. Oh yeah, I am at 12%BF as of today!