why longer esters longer to kick in - why frontloading works

[squirt]

Yup know about half lives, and understand that the longer esters take longer to clear out of your system. But why do the longer esters take longer to kick-in???

The roidcalculator talks about 'active' gear in the blood.
see: http://www.come.to/roidcalc

So if you have the same amout of 'active' test in your blood, why does a longer ester take longer to kick in? for example, why would 100mg of active Test En. be different than 100mg of Test Prop (ignoring the different ester weights) ?????

I 'front loaded' my current Test E./ EQ cycle for just this 'slow to kick in' reason, but don't understand the why....

Thanks...

[einstein1905]

Test, in active form, is available right after injection. The idea of half-life is misleading. Test is immediately being cleaved from the ester to which it's attached, but it takes a period of time (half-life) for a sum of half of the test to have been made bioavailable. Your test levels are constantly on the rise as you build up to the period when your test "kicks in", which it really doesn't. It gradually reaches a peak plasma level where its effects are most noticeably felt. Sides (and gains) begin well before they're obvious.

Shorter estered gear reaches that peak plasma level quicker.

[squirt]

Originally Posted by einstein1905

Test, in active form, is available right after injection. The idea of half-life is misleading. Test is immediately being cleaved from the ester to which it's attached, but it takes a period of time (half-life) for a sum of half of the test to have been made bioavailable. Your test levels are constantly on the rise as you build up to the period when your test "kicks in", which it really doesn't. It gradually reaches a peak plasma level where its effects are most noticeably felt. Sides (and gains) begin well before they're obvious.

Shorter estered gear reaches that peak plasma level quicker.

Thanks einstein, I've read your post 4 times and understand it but, wish there was more. What you say about 'kicks in' fits with my experience, it is more gradual.

I think what you wrote agrees with roidcalc's concept of 'active' compounds. That is, every 1/2 life, half the compound has been made bioavailable (minus the ester).

It seems that many folks talk about how long ethanate takes to 'kick in.' Why isn't front-loading a more common/talked about technique?

[einstein1905]

Originally Posted by squirt

Thanks einstein, I've read your post 4 times and understand it but, wish there was more. What you say about 'kicks in' fits with my experience, it is more gradual.

I think what you wrote agrees with roidcalc's concept of 'active' compounds. That is, every 1/2 life, half the compound has been made bioavailable (minus the ester).

It seems that many folks talk about how long ethanate takes to 'kick in.' Why isn't front-loading a more common/talked about technique?

To be honest, I didn't check out roidcalc to see if it's accurate. What I wrote is what happens though.

Front loading has fallen out of favor in exchange for using orals to kick start a cycle. Even better is to start a cycle and end it with prop.
Front loading is fine IMO.

[squirt]

Originally Posted by einstein1905

Front loading has fallen out of favor in exchange for using orals to kick start a cycle. Even better is to start a cycle and end it with prop. Front loading is fine IMO.

Makes sense. ... I did a little of both. A 50% heavier first week with the oils and dbol for first 4 weeks....My plan is to end with prop to smooth the transition to PCT.

Thanks!

[is_wizer]

Front loading has fallen out of favor in exchange for using orals to kick start a cycle. Even better is to start a cycle and end it with prop.
Front loading is fine IMO.[/quote]

Would starting with Test Suspension be better than prop or pretty much equivalent??

[einstein1905]

Originally Posted by is_wizer

Front loading has fallen out of favor in exchange for using orals to kick start a cycle. Even better is to start a cycle and end it with prop.
Front loading is fine IMO.

Would starting with Test Suspension be better than prop or pretty much equivalent??[/quote]
Test suspension would be even better, but you'll need to consider the short half-life and need for 2x/day injections. You have the most control over plasma test levels with suspension. Suspension usually requires a bigger pin too, which makes 2x/day injections not so fun. I'd still use prop even though suspension is better...it's not necessarily more convenient.

[is_wizer]

Originally Posted by einstein1905

Would starting with Test Suspension be better than prop or pretty much equivalent??

Test suspension would be even better, but you'll need to consider the short half-life and need for 2x/day injections. You have the most control over plasma test levels with suspension. Suspension usually requires a bigger pin too, which makes 2x/day injections not so fun. I'd still use prop even though suspension is better...it's not necessarily more convenient.[/quote]


I get away with using a 24g needle.. it's much more pleasant! And with the frequent injections I've just started injecting in my lats and traps, which makes for a much better injection rotation

[Instock]

That calc is crap. Bolden Undeclanate has a half-life of way more than 7 days. It's one of the longest acting easters available.

[squirt]

Originally Posted by is_wizer

Test suspension would be even better, but you'll need to consider the short half-life and need for 2x/day injections.....

Seems to me like a transdermal makes sense. Has anyone made a Test suspension transdermal? or is it a stupid idea

[einstein1905]

Originally Posted by squirt

Seems to me like a transdermal makes sense. Has anyone made a Test suspension transdermal? or is it a stupid idea

There are test patches/creams. Most provide insufficient doses (i.e. mgs/hr) and the absorption isn't very efficient.

[Endocrine_Supply]

Is transdermal suspension a stupid idea?!? I dont think so.

I have a new TDS comming up (Testosterone Base)... and Im gathering testers here from meso to openly post there results from my product. If anyone else is interested, shoot me an email.

Just make sure you can see the stage folks, its going to be off the hook. -ES