Are you willing to take years off of your life for a freaky physique?

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by Joe West

steroids enlarge your heart. steroids plus GH even more so. no medical evidence? how about looking through the old reports on this god damned site from about 4 years ago? the ones that used to be emailed to member. hell, im sure someof the old timers like me remember them.

Although, also to be found in the articles section is an article describing ventricular hypertrophy in resistance trained athletes in absence of steroid use.

In case I made that sound to high-fallutin', lifting weights makes your heart big even if you dont' use steroids.

[Joe West]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Although, also to be found in the articles section is an article describing ventricular hypertrophy in resistance trained athletes in absence of steroid use.

In case I made that sound to high-fallutin', lifting weights makes your heart big even if you dont' use steroids.

someone remembers .

to be fair, as i recall it the increase was under 30 grams for naturals, while it was 90for juicers and like 150 for juice plus GH. i havent read the article since it was sent to me back then.

im not here to piss in anyones cheerios, as anyone who remembers my patrolling the old source board here knows i have no trouble with juicing lol. but im not going to be dishonest to further a goal either.

[Buff Diddy]

Jesus Christ Dude, are you sure you're not taking way too much test right now. Because if that is your attitude before even juicing I can't even imagine how psyco you're going to be when you're on. You're going to end up killing someone and being locked up for a long time. How about that for putting a cramp in your bodybuilding lifestyle. I hear what your saying but you live in a society with a lot of people who don't understand your point of view and for better or worse you still have to interact and function within the norms. You can't just go around beating people into a pulp. That mentality died off with the cavemen. People won't stand for that and you'll get locked up quick, that or you're get jumped by someone you pissed off or maybe they will pull out a gun and blow you away. You're talking crazy man. You say you're socially retarded, but that just takes some practice. I think you really just need to get laid or better yet a cool girl friend to bone all the time. I don't know bro, I think you're just really frustrated and have way too much pent up anger inside. There is no doubt in my mind that you should get some help and talk to a therapist. If you choose to start juicing in your current state I think you might really snap. It sounds like you have the mentallity of a true bodybuilder so take care of yourself, you might just have what it takes to be a pro if you don't end up dead or in jail.

Originally Posted by Scream in Pain

I respect your opinion Joe...if you believe 22 is even too young, then believe it! But, if one wants to partake in the hardcore lifestyle of a bodybuilder, then one must dedicate himself to his body day and night, and that includes a LOT of drugs to begin with. Add constantlyu stuffing yourself with food, and working out to the point of passing out, most oridinary people will be immediately discouraged from attempting to proclaim any existence within that lifestyle. Me, personally, I cannot stand a normal job, working 8+ hours a day behind the desk, constantly kissing the managers' asses, as I degrade my body, sitting in front of that computer on that chair, chugging down meal replacement bar after another...hell, I'd rather have the life style of a bb'er where I can make the kitchen my office, and set up a nice kitchen table, and basically chug down meal after meal, as I prepare to pump iron...yeah..I want that lifestyle..no need to work...get all of the endorsement money needed, personal train people..give massages...it all compliments the bb'er lifestyle.
Did I forget to mention to you guys..im hearing impaired...I wear hearing aids. I feel that my hearing impairment greatly compliments my fundamental drive for muscle mass and strength, because it's my way of communicating to other people. I am no good at conversation...I suck with women....I am actually socially retarded....so in compensation, I will build this body beyond 260lbs by the summer begins, and I will get into street fighting to make some money, and maybe bounce at nightclubs. I have a strong desire to fight other guys, especially guys who are sucessful with women, of course, with their consent, or via hitting on THEIR girls at the clubs, in a hope to bait them onto me...but there's one problem...if I am going to be about 270lbs, who's going to pick a fight with me
Ah..anyways...had to get that off my chest...
I will post pictures of myself in the near future if you guys would be interested.
Later,
"An angered weightlifter"

[Ronin_]

given my time again i wouldnt use steroids and i have only really used them moderately.

The effect on the HPTA so you have lowered libido later in life is not worth it, losing hair if only a little isnt worth it and most of all the effect on joints isnt worth it

Whilst you say youre young and in the prime u will probably find youre not. women are in their prime at 18-22 but guys, from my own experience, looks, money, confidence, all of that as you get older gets better. Im no longer 5% bodyfat but pull more girls at 15% than i did then, earning more and being older.

If you think steroids are a ticket to a jetset getting laid lifestyle - ok they might be in the short term if u get ripped and become a stripper at college, but you'll have much more women in the long run staying healthy and training and focusing on what counts - your career and your personality

[solo47]

Originally Posted by Ronin_

given my time again i wouldnt use steroids and i have only really used them moderately.

The effect on the HPTA so you have lowered libido later in life is not worth it, losing hair if only a little isnt worth it and most of all the effect on joints isnt worth it...

This is really about hair, isn't it? You've got some desert expansion & are blaming the roids. You're only 27, how do you know about "lowered libido later in life"? If it's lower now, it's likely not to do with roids (or even their lack, like during PCT) but with a more routine life-stye — aka, marriage. Scientific research (Antarctica, 1875) shows that wild libidos are regulary domesticated through marriage vows. (And when they're not & you're not a Mormon, the marriage wasn't a "marriage".)

Solo

[Scream in Pain]

Originally Posted by Buff Diddy

Jesus Christ Dude, are you sure you're not taking way too much test right now. Because if that is your attitude before even juicing I can't even imagine how psyco you're going to be when you're on. You're going to end up killing someone and being locked up for a long time. How about that for putting a cramp in your bodybuilding lifestyle. I hear what your saying but you live in a society with a lot of people who don't understand your point of view and for better or worse you still have to interact and function within the norms. You can't just go around beating people into a pulp. That mentality died off with the cavemen. People won't stand for that and you'll get locked up quick, that or you're get jumped by someone you pissed off or maybe they will pull out a gun and blow you away. You're talking crazy man. You say you're socially retarded, but that just takes some practice. I think you really just need to get laid or better yet a cool girl friend to bone all the time. I don't know bro, I think you're just really frustrated and have way too much pent up anger inside. There is no doubt in my mind that you should get some help and talk to a therapist. If you choose to start juicing in your current state I think you might really snap. It sounds like you have the mentallity of a true bodybuilder so take care of yourself, you might just have what it takes to be a pro if you don't end up dead or in jail.

Your reply really emotionally moved me...I thank you for hitting the bull's eye here on regards to my mentality. Let me tell you, you are right in regards that I live in a society in which a lot of people that just don't understand my point of view...this is EXACTLY why my beliefs revolve around the central core of Nihilism, the theory of nothing. If you must, my philosphical belief is a criminal's belief; that law, order, morality, and religion are just all creations manifested from artificality, and that the only law I shall follow, is the law of "Survival of the fittest". May the strong overcome the weak, may the weak perish to the grounds, as the strong overman (Supermen) take over this world. My goal is therefore to enrich my strength towards ridicilious proportions, to mold my body of monstrous mass, and to strengthen my intellectual abilities sharpened up like a deadly 2 sided blade.
You are right...I am full of anger, hate, and extreme sexual frustration, and there's only one place I can release these manifestations of anger, hate, and lust; the gym. This is why my workouts border on insanity and beyond. My veins are pumped with the blood of anger and hate, and my heart pumps flows of this venom day and night, and the only place I can explode my anger, is at my body and upon the weights; to rapidly expand my muscle tissues with the very blood of hate, and grow massivly off of this hate.
Its a curse and a gift...and If I dont end up in Prison or dead, then you can be sure, I will most definitely become a pro. A Greg Kovacs look is what I strive for; 400lbs of sheer mass. And I do need to get laid...it will happen on Saturday night, and I will put all of my anger into coherent, sexual stamina.
Thank you for helping me here....and may we continue this debate on regards to steroid users' life span?
*Eats popcorn*
should get interesting.....

[joe5572]

Ummm-- well based on what you said-- yours will be short I gather--- (its a joke-- Dont freak out! lol)

[DaneGer]

ok good post, but cycling im moderation wont kill you or even take time or your life span and even doses in the 1000mg range are high but the worst would be liver damage and kidney failure but it takes alot and alot of time, and age i say who cares the age to start IMO would be 21 but thats young to i started when i was 18 but i trained for 4 years hard, my uncle was a professional bodybuilder and my dad was just a big mofo and i would train every night in my basement with them so ya know

[dvs33]

Originally Posted by Scream in Pain

Your reply really emotionally moved me...I thank you for hitting the bull's eye here on regards to my mentality. Let me tell you, you are right in regards that I live in a society in which a lot of people that just don't understand my point of view...this is EXACTLY why my beliefs revolve around the central core of Nihilism, the theory of nothing. If you must, my philosphical belief is a criminal's belief; that law, order, morality, and religion are just all creations manifested from artificality, and that the only law I shall follow, is the law of "Survival of the fittest". May the strong overcome the weak, may the weak perish to the grounds, as the strong overman (Supermen) take over this world. My goal is therefore to enrich my strength towards ridicilious proportions, to mold my body of monstrous mass, and to strengthen my intellectual abilities sharpened up like a deadly 2 sided blade.
You are right...I am full of anger, hate, and extreme sexual frustration, and there's only one place I can release these manifestations of anger, hate, and lust; the gym. This is why my workouts border on insanity and beyond. My veins are pumped with the blood of anger and hate, and my heart pumps flows of this venom day and night, and the only place I can explode my anger, is at my body and upon the weights; to rapidly expand my muscle tissues with the very blood of hate, and grow massivly off of this hate.
Its a curse and a gift...and If I dont end up in Prison or dead, then you can be sure, I will most definitely become a pro. A Greg Kovacs look is what I strive for; 400lbs of sheer mass. And I do need to get laid...it will happen on Saturday night, and I will put all of my anger into coherent, sexual stamina.
Thank you for helping me here....and may we continue this debate on regards to steroid users' life span?
*Eats popcorn*
should get interesting.....

You dont need gear ,you need a shrink

[DocJ]

The only thing AAS have been shown to do is exacerbate or hasten conditions that someone is already prone to. So the only people that I believe would be "taking years off their life" would be in that catagory. If you're genetically prone to certain conditions (e.g. cardiovascular disease, liver cancer) you're playing with fire. If you're not prone to those types of problems, smart cycling of AAS is not going to dramatically effect your health in a negative way.

[Ronin_]

Originally Posted by solo47

This is really about hair, isn't it? You've got some desert expansion & are blaming the roids. You're only 27, how do you know about "lowered libido later in life"? If it's lower now, it's likely not to do with roids (or even their lack, like during PCT) but with a more routine life-stye — aka, marriage. Scientific research (Antarctica, 1875) shows that wild libidos are regulary domesticated through marriage vows. (And when they're not & you're not a Mormon, the marriage wasn't a "marriage".)

Solo

My libido is good now, but alot of that is due to my pathological womanising. My actual testosterone levels are very mediocre, and it took about 12 months from them to rise from non existent my last cycle, so i dont intend to use them again.

It all depends on what you want - short term freakishness, or long term looking very good, and looking excellent 50+.

If your joints are shot from too much heavy lifting and the steroids that enabled you to lift much much more than you would have done naturally, and affected collagen synthesis, you wont be looking good at 40 or 50 as you wont be able to exercise to anywhere near the degree you could have if youd taken more care of your joints

[ForemanRules]

Originally Posted by Joe West

nice way to flame an intelligent debate.

listen kid: steroids and there use have negative effects, and im going to waste my time educating you a bit.

steroids enlarge your heart. steroids plus GH even more so. no medical evidence? how about looking through the old reports on this god damned site from about 4 years ago? the ones that used to be emailed to member. hell, im sure someof the old timers like me remember them.

steroids cause liver damage. i mean, my god are you so totally ignorant to not even know this common knowledge?

and how about all the posts even on here talking about the sudden jumps in blood pressure? yea, thats not dangerous or aything

as far as cholesterol: theres studies both ways on that. however, theres more and more evidence that cholesterol isnt even that major of a determining factor in heart disease. for someone who obviously thinks hes a doctor, you sure as hell arent current on matters like this.

and how about sex hormone binding globulin? that stays elevated for years after a cycle, which is a major reason why the second isnt as good as the first because alot of the test is being bound up.

the responsible guys on here get bloodwork done regularly because of the shit it can do to you.

lets be real: i understand where you are coming from. your first instinct is to show your ass, and your ignorance to be quite honest, whe someone says that test isnt the greatest thing ever. your objections are mostly political, with a smattering of mostly parroted outdated medical knowledgeto back it up.

and if you took the time to wipe the drool off your chin and look at my post, i said on a political level I AGREE WITH YOU. wanna go read it again just to make sure im not lying to you?

so, lets recap: ill make this as concise as i can to make sure you understand it: supra-physiological doses of test are not good for you. they are harmfull, they are risky, it is not something to be taken lightly. i would not suggest anyone i care about using them. but i dont agree with the nanny state bullshit and the current legality of them. you with me so far?

i didnt say anyting about TRT. as a matter of fact, i clearly let it be known what i was talking about when i said SUPRA-PHYSIOLOGICAL! for someone who wants to tell me i dont know what the fuck im talking about, you sure as hell dont seem to be able to decipher words over 2 syllables.

so, after you read over this a couple times, get back to me and let me know what your beef is.

Post drug related deaths due to steroid use Mr "intelligent debate".....if you can that is.


I didn't think so Einstein.

[thick]

what percentage of the population has tried narcotics versus steroids? Also, over the last 30 years what do you think has gotten more attention b/n narcotics and steroids? Honestly i dont see how you can compare the two

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

The're tens of thousands of documented deaths due to narcotics every year.....and only a hand full due to steroids over the last 30 years......so do the math....steroids 5 or 6 in 30 years...narcodics 500,000+ ....your post is tortal BS and has 0 medical research to back it up.

[Joe West]

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Post drug related deaths due to steroid use Mr "intelligent debate".....if you can that is.


I didn't think so Einstein.

im done with you bro. ill leave it to the members of meso to look at our posts ans see who came out on top.

[Joe West]

Originally Posted by DocJ

The only thing AAS have been shown to do is exacerbate or hasten conditions that someone is already prone to. So the only people that I believe would be "taking years off their life" would be in that catagory. If you're genetically prone to certain conditions (e.g. cardiovascular disease, liver cancer) you're playing with fire. If you're not prone to those types of problems, smart cycling of AAS is not going to dramatically effect your health in a negative way.

wrong.

plenty of ppl have heart trouble without previous history and therefor, genetic issues. same goes for cancer.

an alterate way someone could get heart disease is through x-rays or other exposure to radiation. smoking is yet another.

anything that damages the endothylium sets it up.

ill concede without problem that those without a history are less likely.