Any advice for a beginner?

[The Next Arnold]

[font=Times New Roman][size=1] I'm only 16 years old, but I have been bodybuilding for almost a year now. I love the sport, but I try not to get to into training daily as to inhibit my vertical growth. I am currently 6' tall, 195 pounds, and I have appear to have stopped growing. My bench press max is only 195, but yet I can curl 150 on the EZ bar for one. Nutrition-wise I am only allowed to take my whey protein (I guess because of the danger relating to organ development). I can't decide whether to get a gym membership (I don't get my license for 3 months) or to add on to my home gym (so far I have a universal gym and a bench with preacher curl/leg attachment). As of now, I'm leaning towards getting a Smith Machine for squats ($249). Any advice?

Btw- This is my first post! Woohoo!

[Phreezer]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Invest in a squat rack with spotter bars and that you can also do pullups off of and a bench. That's all you need. Well, and some weights

Keep workouts simple: squats, chins, bench and their variations. Workouts are always under an hour. Three days a week should be enough. Keep weights high.

Eat a lot of clean food, sleep, and just eat a lot. You will grow.

I disagree... Workouts do not have to be under an hour.... I often lift for 1 1/2 hrs... and 4-6 days a week for working out is also fine. Especially if you want to run any kind of dual factor program. One thing I will agree on is keeping it simple. Stick to compound movements for the most part.

The food part is over rated.. If you're trying to gain a lot of size, you don't need to eat that clean.. just smart. You should look over this forum and decide for yourself what kind of program may suit you best.

There are a variety of pre canned programs.

Body building
1. HST
2. DFHT
3. DoggCrapp
-----------------
Powerlifting
4. West side
5. Metal Militia

[Phreezer]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Invest in a squat rack with spotter bars and that you can also do pullups off of and a bench. That's all you need. Well, and some weights

Keep workouts simple: squats, chins, bench and their variations. Workouts are always under an hour. Three days a week should be enough. Keep weights high.

Eat a lot of clean food, sleep, and just eat a lot. You will grow.

Definitly go with a good power rack. Smith machines suck, and they tend to cause much more injuries than they prevent. And for god's sake.. Stop worrying about how much you curl. If you're working back and doing deads like your supposed to the bi's will take care of themselves.


I disagree... Workouts do not have to be under an hour.... I often lift for 1 1/2 hrs... and 4-6 days a week for working out is also fine. Especially if you want to run any kind of dual factor program. One thing I will agree on is keeping it simple. Stick to compound movements for the most part.

The protein supp thing is a little over rated, you just need to eat, and eat a lot. If you're trying to gain a lot of size, you don't need to eat that clean.. just smart. I don't know where you're getting your information, but it's not very accurate. If you don't mind, I'd like to suggest a good book for you to read and learn a lot from. It's called "Serious Strength Training" by Tudor Bompa. As far as stuff already cut and dried. You should look over this forum and see if there is something here that may suit your needs.

There are a variety of pre canned programs.

Body building
1. HST
2. DFHT
3. DoggCrapp
-----------------
Powerlifting
4. West side
5. Metal Militia

[Phreezer]

what difference does that make?

You should check in on Olympic training some time.. Or West side. We powerlifters do a lot more volume than you body builders.

Here is an example of one of my workouts. Usually 2-5 minutes rest in between sets..depending on the amount of weight for that set.

Floor Press*

1X15 -45lbs
1X5 - 135lbs
1X3 - 225lbs
1X3 - 275lbs
1X2 - 315lbs
1x1 - 335lbs
1x1 - 355lbs
1x1 - 375lbs
1x1 - 385lbs
1x1 - 405lbs
1x1 - 415lbs
1x1 - 425 (missed)

Decline Barbell Bench Press

245X5
295X5
335X5
355X5

OverHead Dumbell Extensions

110X12
120X10
130X8

Push press

155x5
185x5
225x3

Upright barbell Rows (wide grip)

135x6
145x6
165x6


Bent Over Barbell Rows

185x5
225x5
255x5
275x3

Ab Crunches High Pulley

200x15
225x12
250x10

Ohhh .. I almost forgot..SOmetimes I will throw in a few sets of Hammer curls in here as well.. If I do, I usually add them right after bent over barbell rows.
-----------------------

Most powerlifters train like this... And you don't need AAS to train this way.. Ask Freddy, Gavin, Or John Smith.

(oh...I'm not on AAS right now either)

[Phreezer]

Originally Posted by Frosty

AAS does make a difference.

Most people would burn out doing that. If a Navy Seal came here and said "I don't need drugs to do this training, so neither do you," I don't think we'd take him too seriously.

An effective 5x5 routine takes half an hour to do, so an hour and a half workout would be like a 15x5. Good luck doing that for more than two weeks.

uhhhh... I've been doing it for years. And so have a lot of the others here.

Originally Posted by Frosty

Bodybuilding workouts should be kept under an hour. They're more anabolic and if you can workout for real for an hour and a half, then you're probably not working hard enough.

And just what do you base this statement on? Did you know that Arnold would train often times for 2-3 hour workout sessions? (I'm not saying that's the smartest thing to do..but 1 1/2 hours is really not over doing it. And as far as me not working out hard enough.. I guarantee you couldn't hang through a workout with Animal Mass, Gavin, Freddy, John Smith, Ish, Big Paul, Or myself. (guys who all train in very similar manner..and yes, we often train up to 1 1/2 hours

Seriously bro.. You should go read The john Smith and the dual factor stickies in this forum..

And you may want to go plunk around on this site a bit http://www.nazarethbarbell.com/

[Phreezer]

Originally Posted by Frosty

So you do something like this 6 days a week? From most people I hear from they get overtrained on 6 sets per bodypart per week. Lots on even less.

(sigh)

We Train like this..

Mon - ME bench
Tues - ME Squat
Wed - GPP (general physical preparedness
Thur- DE Bench
Fri - DE squat
Sat -GPP

And I never said I train Max Effort workouts 6 times a week... That is why we incorporate Dynamic days in there as well..

A guy who knows a little something about training.. Hogg... Trains MTW - FSS - TWT - SSM -etc... So yes, you can train six days a week quite easily.

[Phreezer]

btw.. Don't you have a Job? Everytime I log in here you're on...

[Phreezer]

"After an hour cortisol levels are very high, and if you go longer, it gets so high that the chance of anabolism is greatly reduced."

Would you care to post some evidence here showing that anything over an hour will cause this? I'd love to see the study..

An hour and a half is not outrageous.. And it certainly doesn't take "a lot of training to handle that kind of volume" I've seen too many guys that are new jump on DFHT with great succes for that to be true. and that workout lasts between 1 .25 and 1.5 hours each session...

[Phreezer]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Ask Charles Poliquin for the study on it, because I don't have it. But he probably got the info from the numerous elite atheletes he works with.

Just because you know some guys that can do it does not mean it is a good idea for a bodybuilder or even a powerlifter, for that matter.

I know experienced lifters that burned out on Westside, so there is definitely a risk of burning out on a routine like that.

Most people can handle a 5x5 routine, though.

So you make some these statements..post no proof..and then expect me to go digging for your proof? ..lol...

"Just because you know some guys that can do it does not mean it is a good idea for a bodybuilder or even a powerlifter, for that matter."

Hmmm... well, just because you don't know any guys who can train like this doesn't mean that it's a bad idea for BB or PL's... You need to throw away that crap you've been reading in MF and Flex and read some real training info.

But anyway.. I know how you are when it comes to arguing..and I don't have the energy for it tonight.. I've worked a 50 hr week, and I've got to go out and spend some time with the little woman...so I'm just too beat.

Enjoy your Friday night and take care,

Phreezer

[tonyatl]

i'm with phreezer on this one...maybe for the kid keeping it to under an hour is advisable but for other body builders an hour may be too restrictive....i do know bbers who train for under an hour with success but i have been very successful with my 1.25-1.5 hr program with continuous increases in strength and mass....and of course it is not just the training that causes that....when on gear i would train for 2-3 hours 6x per week....looking back i do not think it was an efficient use of time or training strategy but i could do it and make gains....

i just do not see how i could have the strength and size i have with 30 min workouts....nor can i imagine accomplishing anything with 6 sets per body part per week....the guys i see doing that are sticks....i do typically 8-12 sets per body part per workout and do not feel over trained...

natural test production is optimized with 40-60 minute workouts...anything longer does tend to reduce test levels....

just my .02usd....

[tonyatl]

there is also a chance of undertraining or mis-training with a 5x5 protocol or a 30 min routine....on the other hand i just started with a new trainer today and we did legs in about 45min....i have never had my ass kicked so badly in my life...all we did was lunges ( 8 lengths of 75ft each length, 3 sets of leg presses of 25 reps each, and 3 sets of bench squats 50,40,30 reps per set )....i could not stand at various times through the workout but it was such a stark contrast from my normal workouts which are heavy weight centric....

i think both sides have merit and should be incorporated into a well balanced workout regimen....i do not think it is either/or in this case - it's probably both/and depending upon your goals....

btw - my trainer is a nationally ranked bber and has the success to back up his approach...i'll gain size with him but i doubt that i will gain strength - to do that requires my 1.25-1.5 hr routine....

[tonyatl]

[quote=Frosty]You don't need to workout for over an hour to get stronger.

With that in mind, "both sides" don't have to be incorporated.

don't give me that basic routine shit....i have lifted long enough to be way beyond basic routines.....

the point is not to just get stronger....the point is to fully develop the muscle...and as i learned today both sides do need to be incorporated - short intense with longer and more thorough -....and to fully develop the muscle - the slow twitch/fast twitch, major/minor groups, endurance/speed/power - requires a rich protocol of varying standards....and consequently varying amounts of time spent training...and besides in your theoretical 1 hr workout it doesnt vary that greatly with my 1.25.....i think it is much ado about nothing...

and if i took your theoretical 30 minute workout i would have 15-20 min for body part 1 and the remainder for body part 2...i simply wouldnt be where i am today with that kind of workout....it's more than mere size or strength or power - it's all in the mix....

[wic2111]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Phreezer vs Frosty part II!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lets see who come sout on top this time........................

10 bucks on Pheezer....

Oh yeah I train approx. 1 hours to 2 hours depending on the exercise i am training for that day. Never have been stronger since moving to a westside/mm hybrid. I like the 5x5 too but thats for the offseason!

[Bob Smith]

Originally Posted by Frosty

The longer you go over an hour, the greater the cortisol increase and the less anabolic.

Yes, but (and this is a huge but), your hormone levels will decline after roughly 45-60 minutes WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE STILL WORKING OUT. This includes your drive home if you finish in 45 minutes. It really makes no difference to results. This is one mantra that needs to die.

I have personally met Phreezer, AnimalMass, and some of the other guys that train like them. Their workouts truly are 1 1/2 hours and sometimes even longer. You know what, these are the most massive guys I have ever seen in my life. Phreezer would make most bodybuilders look like midgets. AnimalMass's (former?) training partners are enormous, one with something like 33-35 inch quads. They blow right past the hour mark during their workout and it certainly hasnt stalled their growth. Ive seen a chick bench 300 and she workouts out with guys like AM and Phreezer.