Back training

[knockdown]

Just wondering it you guys think this is enough for back training or should I add more set/reps

pullups 3sets of 10-12

lat pull downs 3 sets of 10-12

seated rows 3 set of 10-12

dead lifts 4 sets of 5

-thank you-

[AnimalMass]

Well, first off - lat pulldowns and pullups are redundant. Pick one and do that for your vertical pulling for the day.

Second, seated rows are crap. Do JS Barbell Rows for your horizontal pulling.

Deadlifts are great - but make sure you do these first and not last in your back training.

Also, check out my DFHT revisited thread to see how you might incorporate all this into your training without overtraining and providing your body with double the stimulus for muscle growth.

Matt

[Freddy]

AM gave you great advice. Here are my additional thoughts.

I just posted this in another thread, but you might find it helpful.

"I've said this before, but you only need 3 types of lifts to build a monsterous back. And if you want to really do a consolidated routine, maybe only 2 lifts.

1.) Heavy pulls -You have a lot of options here. Traditional deadlifts, sumo deadlifts, SL deads, romanian deads, rack deads, power cleans, cleans, etc will all work great.

2.) Rows -You have quite a bit of options here as well. Like AnimalMass, I prefer the JS row. 1 arm DB rows, chest supported rows (if you like them, I don't) or even Dorian rows will all work fine, but they are not as great. The JS row has been backed up by both damn good lab work, and old fashioned trial and error in the gym. If you prefer verticle pulling as opposed to horizontal, then weighted chinups work damn well too.

3.) Upper body pulling -Usually upright rows or high pulls. Both work very well, depending on your preferences and goals.

You can have the fanciest back routine in the world, but if you don't have these 3 types of lifts, you're probably not working as hard as you could."

[johnsmith182]

almost anyone whom i have gotten to do barbell rows right always comes back to them as the basis for their back routines... they get tired of them after a while and do other things, but always come back because they work so well. deadlifts, chinups, and lots of other things work for back, but in my opinion nothing works quite like barbell rows if they are done right.

it might interest you to know that we hooked an EMG machine up to people doing various kinds of back work, and NOTHING came close to rows for activating a large amount of motor units. i wouldnt "prescribe" exercises based on this alone, but it does back up the practical experience that i have had.

keep in mind that i mean rows with the back pretty much parallel to the ground, bar touching the floor on each rep, little or preferably NO hip extension during the row, a pause on the floor if need be, and the reps pulled fast and explosively.

rows done right are almost like a squat, they involve so much of your bodys muscle mass. you get real tired and hell ive been lightheaded and had to sit down after a set. they are a hard, hard exercise.

there seems to be some confusion on how to do them right on some of the other threads, so i will see if i can get a pic or two of them in the next day or so.

[Pablo34]

JS,

I would definitely be interested in seeing a pic on the correct form of the JS rows.

[knockdown]

Thanks for your input guys. AM, I was thinking he same thing about pullups and pulldowns thats why I posted this thread. Barbell rows are fine but im not sure that my lower back can handle DL's and BB rows. DL's first you say, I always do them last guess Ill try them first tonite. So ill go with dumbell rows, less stress on my lower back. Again thanks for the input.

-thank you-

[Bob Smith]

Originally Posted by johnsmith182

there seems to be some confusion on how to do them right on some of the other threads, so i will see if i can get a pic or two of them in the next day or so.

Any chance of posting a video of someone doing a few reps? If you cant, then maybe AM can post one up.

[johnsmith182]

heres a couple of pics, 2 of the starting position, 1 of the finished position. looks so simple im almost embarrassed to post them... and this kid is terrible at relaxing his upper back at the start, but you can see that he is "scunching" his upper back at the top, trying to arch the upper spine as much as possible, thats really the key to get as much activation as possible, making the attempt to arch your back, upper back specifically as much as possible at the top, without extending the hips. you can see that his hip angle doesnt change at all, the chest comes up becasue he is arching his back as he pulls but the hips dont extend. when you let the bar down, let the upper back relax, and if possible bend the spine a little and let the shoulders come forward, then as you pull the bar up, pull the shoulders back, arch the back, and pull with the arms all at the same time. looks simple, and really is simple to do once you do it once and see how it feels. with a guy like t his who cant bend his upper back that well, it doesnt look much different than any other row, but again, its the effort to pull tyhe shoulders back and arch the back as you pull that makes the difference, even though there will be more spinal and shoulder movement in some people than others.

[Grizzly]

Did you read my "chair explanation" as to how to do the row? Was that a good explanation?

Also, what does a monkey like me do to have less bend in the arms in the bottom position, or does it even matter?

[johnsmith182]

good an explanation as any. to solve the long arms problem, dont bend your knees so much. more or less knee bend will accomodate any type of physique, as well as more or less ability to roll the shoulders forward and bend at the upper back. i use less knee bend than this kid becasue i have a lot more ability to let the shoulders drop and bend the upper back, and longer arms.

[monsoon]

A video would really be helpful,because I'm still not sure if I'm doing them right. And Grizzly, I can't picture how your arms are bent at the bottom, straighten your legs a bit maybe?

[monsoon]

so the kid in the pic needs to drop his shoulders more at the start? Maybe I am doing them right.

[johnsmith182]

you drop your shoulders and round your upper back a bit at the start, but not the lower back. then in one explosive movement, you pull the shoulders back, "scrunch" or arch your upper back, and pull with your arms. it all happens at once, and the bar hits you hard in middle of the abs. this is not a slow exercise, its a fast and powerfull contraction of all the muscles of the back, which causes all 3 things to happen simultaneously. different people look a little differently, depending on their mobility in those parts of their body. most people can drop the shoulders and round out the upper back more than this kid. no matter how mobile you are in these areas, it is the EFFORT you make to do all 3 of these actions at once, and quickly and powerfully that makes it work really well.

[Grizzly]

I just tested it out(imagination, I don't have a bar at work ) and maybe my arms aren't as bent as I thought the were. I would think that totally straight would be best, but maybe not.

[monsoon]

Ok John, I think that last bit nailed it. I Can't wait for my wrist to heal. At the moment I'm only doing squats.