Best movements for upper-inner pecs

[van-man]

Ok guys.... I have a bit of a challenge. I have very prominent delts by genetics. My front delts are much bigger than average for people of my size. I'm 6'1" and 210lbs/96kg fit and trim, but I have delts you would see on a guy around 225lbs. Don't get me wrong, I love 'em, but it causes difficulties when I train my upper chest. The delts dominate the movements, and as a result, the very upper/inner part of my pecs are lagging in fullness and development from what I would like to see.
this last cycle I switched up incline barbell for dumbell, focusing on the upper 2/3rds of the movement, and have tried every variation of fly that I can come up with. The dumbells provided some benefit, but the fly movements were all defeated by the delts.

I would like some suggestions on how to focus on this particular area more effectively, and maybe some tips on how to remove as much delt influence as I can.

thanks in advance guys!

[Grizzly]

You can't. that's my answer. "Specification" or whatever you want to call it is Weider malarkey.

[Phreezer]

Lol.. This question always kills me...

First will you show me on an anatomy chart where the upper chest or upper inner pectoral are located? ......... What? Can't do it?

Well, that's because there is no such thing. THe pectoral is one muscle. not seperated. Guys just think they're upper chest is small .. well, that's because your lower chest is small too... The only way to get a big meaty chest is to build up the whole muscle ... The whole pec.. Exercises like flat bench, low grade decline dumbbell press are best..

This comes from consistant time in the gym and a good diet and from dedication... There is no exercise that will exclusivly build your upper chest... Simply make your whole chest bigger and the upper and lower pectoral (lol) will both be big and full

For chest EMG results show that slight grade decline dumbbell presses have more pectoral recruitment than any other exercise. I would say that Decline dumbbell press and flat bench are the two best. Flyes Suck

[van-man]

So you guys don't think that different angles of approach stimulate the fibers of a given muscle group to a greater or lesser degree? You don't think that wide grip bench puts more emphasis on the outer sweep of the pec than say, standard or close grip bench? Because I can feel it when I do the different movements...

"First will you show me on an anatomy chart where the upper chest or upper inner pectoral are located? ......... What? Can't do it?"

Sure phreez, its the area of the pec where the clavicle and sternum intersect.


Pectoralis major

Origin:
medial 1/3 of clavicle
anterior aspect of manubrium & length of body of sternum
cartilaginous attachments of upper 6 ribs
external oblique's aponeurosis
Insertion:
lateral lip of bicipital groove to the crest of the greater tubercle
clavicular fibers insert more distally; sternal fibers more proximally
Action:
adducts humerus
medially rotates humerus
flexion of the arm from extension (clavicular portion)
Blood:
pectoralis branch of thoracoacromial artery (runs with lateral pec. nerve)
lateral thoracic artery (lesser supply, and runs with medial pectoral nerve)
Nerve:
lateral pectoral nerve, C5,6,7 to clavicular portion
medial pectoral nerve, C8,T1 to sternal portion

[van-man]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

You can't. that's my answer. "Specification" or whatever you want to call it is Weider malarkey.

So Grizz, you think that I'm just going to have to come to terms with the fact that my outer pec sweep is going to get waay larger than I want before the inner/upper region gets to where I want it to be?

Ahhh well, as long as its big I guess I'll be ok with it.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by van-man

So Grizz, you think that I'm just going to have to come to terms with the fact that my outer pec sweep is going to get waay larger than I want before the inner/upper region gets to where I want it to be? :

Yes, that's what I think. In every case I've ever seen of sombody complaining that some "part" of a muscle group is weak, it's because that whole muscle group is small. Dudes are always talking about not having enough quad sweep, when, in reality, they just don't have enough quads period.

[van-man]

I know what your saying... I guess my thing is that I'm happy with my overall size since it allows me to have plenty of strength and still fit into off the rack racing suits (saves me a shitload of money) but then when I get to looking real close I start thinking "I wish I had a little more there, while maintaining size here". Then I see some jack ass that has no outer sweep with a tremendous center line and I'm like, "WTF am I doing wrongthat I get all this size with no center line?!"
But seperation and fullness get a little bit better with age so, I'll just keep things at where they're at and get huge in my retirement like you are now

ps I'm glad we got back on the right foot..
peace out you big hairy mofo!

[Grizzly]

I feel your pain. Not that I would argue with more size everywhere, but I have a very wide chest, but it's super weak at the bottom. I've declined my balls off in the past and, lo and behold, didn't do anything.

Muscle shape is determined by genetics. Ever seen the guys with the really shitty bicep insertion points that makes their arms look funny? Those same guys do everything they can to "lengthen" their biceps. They still have the same shitty, short biceps 3 years later.

[van-man]

lol! Thats me!

Aww fuck it! I'll just go get some synthol! hahaha!

[Phreezer]

WTF? that doesn't show any muscle named Upper Pectoral, or inner upper pectoral? Is your IQ below 70? lol.... I don't know how to get into your wittle head that it's just one big ol muscle. If it's small on one part it small on another. The anatomy chart you posted if you'll take the time to actually look at it shows what I've been telling you all along.

NOW, AGAIN... It's called the pectoralis Major.. There is no Upper Pectoral or lower pectoral or an inner pectoral. THAT is my point. Your post doesn't do anything but show how you are trying to argue for the sake of arguing. You pull stuff out of your ass all the time. Stuff that is wrong. I grow tired of seeing all the misinformation you are posting..but I digress..

(to note there is a pectoralis minor but it is a very small triangular shaped muscle near the thorax.)

Now, I also want to address your other little comment .....EMG studies..wait, I obviously have to explain what that is. It stands for electro myofibril graph. This is a machine that's used to gauge how much work a muscle is performing. This machine has shown in multiple studies that the exercise that gets the most activity from the pectoal is Low grade decline Dumbbell presses. 2nd is traditional bench press. My point.. There is clinical data to support what I'm saying. You can choose to believe it or not. It doesn't change it from being the truth.

[Kayz]

Kind of off topice, but kind of on topic. If you truly want a bigger/stronger chest, strengthen your rotator cuffs. I had a 70 % tear of the supraspinatus (1 of 4 RC muscles), which made my entire shoulder girdle and chest very very weak. I also had surface tears on the subscapularis and the teres minor ot a lesser degree. Fortunately I was able to avoid surgery and thru intense phsical therapy I was able to drastically improve the strength of my RC. Low and behold, my chest began to get stronger with each workout. With the added strenght came an increase in size.

I'd venture to say that 80% of the people at your gym have grossly weak RC's...and it hinders their shoulder/chest development. The RC is responsible for keeping the "ball in the socket" and stabilizing your shoulder for all movements. If your RC is underdeveloped, the ball of the humerus will "slip" out of the socket to a small degree...throwing your form off big time.

Strong RC = strong pectorals.

[Ramstein II]

I consider it a head of the pec major that cannot be fully isolated but can be stressed. I'm not the only one. http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/PectoralisClavicular.html

I know that genetic variation determines how isolated your clavicular head of the pec is isolated. I personally can flex my lower chest to almost the exclusion of my upper chest. I can certainly make each head sore to the exclusion of the others.

My favorite exercises for upper chest: Hammer Strength Iso Incline Press, cable flies from low pullies, incline dumbell flies. I also do barbell press, but I never feel it as much. I'm too strong for dumbbell press (j/k). They're too dangerous to handle given my broken lower back.

[van-man]

Originally Posted by Phreezer

WTF? that doesn't show any muscle named Upper Pectoral, or inner upper pectoral? Is your IQ below 70? lol.... I don't know how to get into your wittle head that it's just one big ol muscle. If it's small on one part it small on another. The anatomy chart you posted if you'll take the time to actually look at it shows what I've been telling you all along.

NOW, AGAIN... It's called the pectoralis Major.. There is no Upper Pectoral or lower pectoral or an inner pectoral. THAT is my point. Your post doesn't do anything but show how you are trying to argue for the sake of arguing. You pull stuff out of your ass all the time. Stuff that is wrong. I grow tired of seeing all the misinformation you are posting..but I digress..

(to note there is a pectoralis minor but it is a very small triangular shaped muscle near the thorax.)

Now, I also want to address your other little comment .....EMG studies..wait, I obviously have to explain what that is. It stands for electro myofibril graph. This is a machine that's used to gauge how much work a muscle is performing. This machine has shown in multiple studies that the exercise that gets the most activity from the pectoal is Low grade decline Dumbbell presses. 2nd is traditional bench press. My point.. There is clinical data to support what I'm saying. You can choose to believe it or not. It doesn't change it from being the truth.

Ok I am now officially resolved on the matter.... I am convinced that you intentionally spin and misinterpret EVERYTHING I say. I would humbly request that you add me to your ignore list as you are really bumming me out man

Not that you care, and not that I care you know, but I just feel like saying this; Both of my parents are RN's and I've been reading medical books since I was nine! (that was when my father began med school). And I've been test for my IQ three times in my life; the lowest I ever scored was a 136 and the highest was a 141, so I just split the numbers and call it a nice even 138. Now leave me the fuck alone!

[Phreezer]

Lol.. sorry but as a mod nobody is on my ignore list. I could care less what you say your iq is... your reading comprehension needs some work and so does your trying to pass off your logic as fact.

Maybe you'll do a bit more research in the future before you try to pad your post count.

Take care,

P

Originally Posted by van-man

Ok I am now officially resolved on the matter.... I am convinced that you intentionally spin and misinterpret EVERYTHING I say. I would humbly request that you add me to your ignore list as you are really bumming me out man

Not that you care, and not that I care you know, but I just feel like saying this; Both of my parents are RN's and I've been reading medical books since I was nine! (that was when my father began med school). And I've been test for my IQ three times in my life; the lowest I ever scored was a 136 and the highest was a 141, so I just split the numbers and call it a nice even 138. Now leave me the fuck alone!

[combat_action]

LOL, I posted this whole response in another forum so it's a easy cut and paste....

In my opinion, you cannot target sections of a muscle without working the entire thing. If that was the case, you could flex your "inner" chest without flexing the entire thing. Likewise, can you flex your "inner" or "outer" biceps without flexing the whole thing?

Here's a good piece of an article debunking myths like isolationalism. Source

MYTH 1. Specific portions of a muscle can be trained

The gist of this myth goes something like this, "You can hit the lower portion of your pecs with decline presses." Any statement similar to this is pure B.S. The implication is that doing decline presses will make the lower portion of your pecs larger. This is physiologically impossible. The pectoralis major are the two muscles that we commonly refer to as the chest. There are also the pectoralis minor which runs underneath the upper portion of the major. The pectoralis major, when stimulated with exercise and allowed to recover will grow. It will grow as a whole (as with all muscles), not in sections. So doing an incline, decline, or flat bench press will not make your pectoralis major grow in different fashions. The shape of your muscle is genetically determined by its origin and insertion points and no training will change this. If individual muscle cells (within a specific fiber type) grew at different rates you would have very lumpy muscles. Think about it! When selecting an exercise for a specific muscle, you should pick the one that most closely mimics the muscle's primary function (i.e. the pectoralis major's primary function is to pull the arm across the chest and downward--- so a decline press would be best amongst the presses). Another important factor in exercise selection is your own anatomy, the length of your bones and where your muscles insert and originate. Through experimentation, most experienced lifters learn which exercises work best for them.

That's also like saying some preacher curls work my "lower biceps"... Source

The Top Ten Training Myths
Myth #10: Preacher curls work the lower biceps.

First of all, there's no such thing as a "lower" biceps. It’s impossible to contract the lower portion of your biceps without recruiting any other portions.

Still not convinced? Well, you might be thinking that whenever you complete a tough set of preacher curls, you get a pump in your biceps just above the bend in your elbow. After all, it’s your "lower" biceps which creates your biceps "peak," isn’t it?

Okay, here’s the deal. The prime movers in the preacher curl are your biceps brachii and the brachialis. The biceps brachii consists of a long and short head and it crosses over two joints (your shoulder and elbow). On the other hand, the brachialis only crosses over one joint (the elbow) and it lies underneath the biceps brachii. It originates on the middle of your humerus and inserts on the radius.

When performing a preacher curl, your upper arms are placed in front of your upper body (shoulder flexion). For a muscle to be fully activated, it must be stretched at both ends. Since the biceps brachii attaches to the shoulder, it can’t be fully activated because the angle of the preacher bench places the shoulders in flexion. This places a large portion of the load on the short head of the biceps brachii and the brachialis.

Remember that the brachialis lies underneath the biceps brachii and it originates lower on the upper arm. When the brachialis gets "pumped," it pushes the bottom of the biceps brachii forward, creating what appears to be a "lower biceps."

In my opinion, the idea of being able to work your muscles in sections is people's justification for doing a 5 day split. An example would be a "chest day", doing 3 sets of inclines for 'upper pecs', then a few sets of declines for 'lower pecs', then ending the day with some flat bench flyes for the 'inner chest'. Or worse yet, doing some high incline smith presses for the very top of your upper pecs because they're not up to snuff. Fortunately, exercises like flat bench more than stimulate the ENTIRE chest as a WHOLE. Hence the success rate for programs like the 5 x 5.