cycling 5 X 5 and hst

[chiseled21]

I have been doing 5 X 5 for the past 4 weeks. I am definitly into my 5 rep maxes and am feeling like it is time to back off a little. I am not a powerlifter and am not concerned with peaking. 5 X 5 is a great workout and has everything that I want for mass building and overall muscle stimulation. Since I do not plan on peaking I was wondering if cycling 5 X 5 with an HST style workout would be OK. How I would go about this is doing HST for four weeks using the 15 and 10 rep schemes and when I get to the 5 rep schemes beginning the 5 X 5 program again. I think that a workout such as this will keep the muscles guessing and not overkill the CNS. Please comment...

[Grizzly]

I think you should just follow it through, at least for the first time. Now, I might be fatter and lazyer than you, but I think 3X3 is just about the coolest shit ever. LOL Try it, you'll like it.

[chiseled21]

I will give it a try. However I do have somewhat of a hidden agenda; I am going to St. Martin in a couple of weeks so I am interested in getting my beach muscles pumped and pretty. I figure hst using high reps will make it easier to cut up further for the beach( damn I hate admitting that my number 1 concern right now is definition). I have been trying to add more cardio to the 5 X5 but it is affecting the lifts to the point to where the gains are slowing and I am tiring too quickly. I have been dieting and doing AM cardio so my calories have not been as they should be for a true 5 X 5 anyway. And grizz any body that does 5 X 5 and still trains in martial arts is not lazy in any way.

[Freddy]

Do the 3x3 like you're supposed to, but add in additional cardio if you're worried about being lean.

I think doing intervals on off days, either sprinting or on the bike, would be great.

And if you haven't cleaned up your diet thats much more important than how many reps you do.

The 5x5 works best if done for a long time. The first cycle isn't as great as the 2nd, as you really aren't used to the work load yet.

Its best to stick with the 5x5 for at least 6 months, if not a year. I suppose you could only do it for 1 cycle if you wanted, but I would never cut it half-way through. The 3x3 part is just as important as the 5x5.

[road warrior]

Keep on following the 5x5 guidelines and add 90+ minutes cardio btwn 65-80% max heart rate ed.

You'll be so ripped you'll need tape

road warrior

[Madcow2]

It's not a matter of peaking, the 3x3 portion is designed for basic deloading. The 5x5 weeks load (stimulate) and the 3x3 weeks deload (allow the body to recover and adapt). This isn't about peaking this is about allowing the body to recover and adapt from the recovery deficit you've accrued over the past weeks. This is why the bulk of the gains tend to show up late in the program which I'm guessing you've never run through before.

Get your cardio in and monitor your calories. Leave the workout methodology on autopilot and concern yourself only with lifting in the gym. You will have your progress and look good. The first time someone new to these runs this they invariably screw up the weight selection so the results only get better the second time. Give this thing a chance - there is nothing you can do to make it significantly better for general strength or hypertrophy. There are some things you can tweak eventually but you should run this through 3 complete times before you do anything more complex than swap out an exercise or two (inclines for military or cleans for rows etc...). You need to gain experience with the workout and your body's tolerances/capabilities first.

[kasper2133]

Originally Posted by Madcow2

It's not a matter of peaking, the 3x3 portion is designed for basic deloading. The 5x5 weeks load (stimulate) and the 3x3 weeks deload (allow the body to recover and adapt). This isn't about peaking this is about allowing the body to recover and adapt from the recovery deficit you've accrued over the past weeks. This is why the bulk of the gains tend to show up late in the program which I'm guessing you've never run through before.

In another thread Animalmass pointed out that you should only do the 5x5 part of the program if your interested in hypertrophy, and cycle down 15-20% and start over when you cant increase the weights further. Only do the 3x3 if your interested in strenght.

[monsoon]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

I think you should just follow it through, at least for the first time. Now, I might be fatter and lazyer than you, but I think 3X3 is just about the coolest shit ever. LOL Try it, you'll like it.

me too, I only have one week left boo hoo.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by kasper2133

In another thread Animalmass pointed out that you should only do the 5x5 part of the program if your interested in hypertrophy, and cycle down 15-20% and start over when you cant increase the weights further. Only do the 3x3 if your interested in strenght.

If AM gave you another method of deloading, you can try that. However, the 3x3 method is much more tried and true.

Its important to deload. As Madcow said, if you don't deload, you won't see most of the gains.

[kasper2133]

Here's my question to AM

After reading JS post about the program, i get the idea that he means only to peak if you are interested in strength. If its hypertrophy your after, do you just keep pushing on the 5x5, and cycle the weight down and start over, when you cant complete the reps?

AM's reply

Yes, you really only need to peak if you are aiming for strength. If you are doing it for hypertrophy, then start conservatively and run 3-4 week cycles with it. Try and set records on the 3rd or 4th week, and then back off the weights and start over.

You basically want to reduce poundages by 15% or so - basically something that you can complete pretty easy when you start the program back up again, and shoot for new 5x5 maxes and 5RMs by the 3rd or 4th week. Then continue to go for new maxes until you fail, then drop back down again

When you drop down, you only cycle the weight down, and not volume like in your DFHT program. Correct? RIGHT - BECAUSE VOLUME IS REALLY LOW ANYWAY - WE'RE ONLY TALKING 3-4 EXERCISES PER DAY, SO WHAT WOULD YOU DROP?

[chiseled21]

I did mis read the post by JS; I was not aware that the 3 X 3 is a form of deloading. Volume wise it would be de-loading; I guess I was scared when I saw three reps because that obviosly means more weight and I am feeling like I am ready to de-load a little. I started this program having a pretty good idea as to where to start at considering that I had been doing HST cycles prior to this so I feel that the weights I started at and ended with were adequate. 5 X5 is an excellent program....however when cutting I have been having a hard time de-programming myself away from higher reps( Since I began training it was always drilled "high reps for definition and low reps for bulking".)

[Freddy]

If all you want is a dual factor program good for BBing, and you don't care about strength, then why not do HST?

[chiseled21]

I had been doing HST workouts to this point. I am concerned with strength and gaining mass and those were my weight trainning goals for these winter months(as many are). My girlfriend booked us a trip to St. Marten the second week of february and I wanted to cut some but was in the middle of my 5 X5. I was not sure if 5 x 5 would be good for cutting so I figured I would do hst for a couple of weeks prior to going. I have since decided against that and have just continued through with the 5 X 5. My diet has been good and I have increased the cardio, my obliques and abs are coming along nicely and my overall condition and vascularity are pretty good. Thanks for all the advice; now if there was a workout to make my cock hang to my calves I would be ready for the 6 nude beaches.

[Madcow2]

Originally Posted by kasper2133

In another thread Animalmass pointed out that you should only do the 5x5 part of the program if your interested in hypertrophy, and cycle down 15-20% and start over when you cant increase the weights further. Only do the 3x3 if your interested in strenght.

My first thoughts are that I have no idea the context in which this was discussed or what else might be missing from that conversation. AM knows his stuff and we've been on other boards together. If there's a thread that can be linked I'd be happy to read it later.

The main issue is that the 5x5 phase is high volume and a lot of the loading comes in the form of volume (think about the Wednesday squats and their purpose). You'd effectively be keeping volume high the entire time and only backing down 15-20% from your maxes - I'm not convinced it would adequately provide for sufficient deloading in most people and running this back to back would bury them sooner or later (and yeah, there are some elite lifters who can handle huge training loads but this comes from years of conditioning and a good bit of genetic potential). There are plenty of alternative methods to deload, the 3x3 scheme employed is just one of them and although the reps are low it's not exactly a 100% strength program - there are plenty of synergistic benefits to BBers training in this rep range for part of a training cycle. My thoughts anyway.

[kasper2133]

Originally Posted by Madcow2

My first thoughts are that I have no idea the context in which this was discussed or what else might be missing from that conversation. AM knows his stuff and we've been on other boards together. If there's a thread that can be linked I'd be happy to read it later.

The main issue is that the 5x5 phase is high volume and a lot of the loading comes in the form of volume (think about the Wednesday squats and their purpose). You'd effectively be keeping volume high the entire time and only backing down 15-20% from your maxes - I'm not convinced it would adequately provide for sufficient deloading in most people and running this back to back would bury them sooner or later (and yeah, there are some elite lifters who can handle huge training loads but this comes from years of conditioning and a good bit of genetic potential). There are plenty of alternative methods to deload, the 3x3 scheme employed is just one of them and although the reps are low it's not exactly a 100% strength program - there are plenty of synergistic benefits to BBers training in this rep range for part of a training cycle. My thoughts anyway.

Good post.

The thread is here:

5x5 questions

In here AM points out its a low volume program, so we have some conflicting opinions here..