Just started working out - hows my routine? :)

[NightFire1]

Hello everybody. I just started working out seriously, and would like you to tell me if my workout is any good. I have been visiting a gym for about 4 months and Im not happy with my results, and with the way ppl train there. I want to gain strenght and explosive power (ok, a litle mass too, I just want to have around 200-210 pounds ). So I started working out this way too. Im 16, 5`8 and 160 pounds. This is my new workout:

Working out 4 times a week, monday, tuesday, thursday and friday.

workout A (mon, thurs):
Bench Press 3x5
Squat 3x5
Push Press 3x5
Clean (originaly had Clean & Jerk) 3x5

Workout (tues, frid) B
Hang Clean 3x5
Deadlift 3x5
Chin-up 3x5
BB Bent Over Row 3x5

I will probably use this for the first 6 weeks, and then for next 6 weeks, I will change my set-rep range to 4x5 and after those 6 weeks to 5x5. I was told not to go over the 5 rep range, for power gains. Also, I was told that anything more then 4 days a week is overtraining. (I was told alot ) After these 12 weeks, I will add exercises and change the whole thing a litle bit I dunno how yet.

Any advices or comments would be welcome since I posted this on some powerlifting board and got no replays.

btw, I posted this once in the old forum, but since this is a new one, I thought id post it again, maybe I get some more feedbacks

[Phreezer]

Originally Posted by NightFire1

Working out 4 times a week, monday, tuesday, thursday and friday.

workout A (mon, thurs):
Bench Press 3x5
Squat 3x5
Push Press 3x5
Clean (originaly had Clean & Jerk) 3x5

Workout (tues, frid) B
Hang Clean 3x5
Deadlift 3x5
Chin-up 3x5
BB Bent Over Row 3x5

Well, I see you've tried to set up more of a strength oriented program over a body building program...It's not a very good program the way and the order that you have everything put together....but it's a good effort!

OK, the simple truth here..... it would take a great many threads to explain why it isn't a good program, and why each exercise, each meso cycle..each body part...Hypertrophy, strength, general physical preparedness...That is simply too much information to try and put into this one post of mine. So instead of doing that, I'll suggest that you read the above thread..."A tribute to John Smith" there is some very good information in there...There is also another program that I think you would do very well with, and it was created by one of our mods here, (animal Mass) and it's called Dual Factor Hypertrophy Training... I'll try and put together a dual factor thread sometime this evening, that will give a full A-Z of the program...I suggest you come back and look for it, because it's a good program at combining body building and Powerlifting...

Now, if you wanna be a powerlifter...


YOu just made my, AM's, Freddy's, Gavin's and John Smith's Day!

We should look into programs called Westside Barbell, and Metal Militia Training....In other words...The good Stuff!

here are a couple of links that are required reading!!!!

http://www.t-mag.com/html/body_129per.html

http://www.t-mag.com/html/body_133per.html

http://www.musclemonthly.com/article...werlifting.htm

After reading these articles...You'll wanna put together a routine something like this....

Monday - Max Effort Lower Body Day

Box Squats 3 sets of 3 (3-5 warm-up sets)
Good Mornings 3 sets of 3 (3-5 warm-up sets)
Dimmel Deadlifts 3 sets of 15-20
Pull-down Abs 7 sets of 8
Hanging Leg Raises 4 sets to failure
Reverse Hypers 4 sets of 8

Wednesday - Max Effort Bench Day

-First 2 weeks: Board Press 3 sets of 3 (3-5 warm-up sets)
-Second 2 weeks: Close-grip Incline Press 3 sets of 3 (3-5 warm-up sets)
Barbell Tricep Extensions 60 total reps w/10 rep max per set
Seated Cable Row 3 sets of 8 (3-5 warm-up sets & use different grip each week)
Face Pulls 3 sets of 8
External Rotations 4 sets of 8

Friday - Dynamic Effort Lower Body Day

Box Squat 8-10 sets of 2 reps
Pull Thoughs 8 sets of 12
Pull -down Abs 7 sets of 8
laying Leg Raises 4 sets of 8
Reverse Hypers 4 sets of 8

Sunday - Dynamic Effort Bench Day

Bench Press 8-10 sets of 3 reps
Pin Press 2 sets of 3 (3-5 warm-up sets)
Bent-over Dumbbell Rows 3 sets of 8 (3-5 warm-up sets)
Face Pulls 3 sets of 8
External Rotations 4 sets of 8
Upright Rows 3 sets of 8

Something like this...This would be westside...I do more of a hybrid between metal militia training for bench and westside for lowerbody......read those article links I posted and then come back with your questions...

[Riemann]

If you know how to clean and squat properly, I don't think it's a bad program at all for a beginner. I would make two minor adjustments though. Don't do cleans on your "push" days, maybe add some abdominal work instead, and I'd start out with three days a week rather than four.

[Grizzly]

Hmmm, odd. I sent him over here from another board because I knew that the training advice on this board would be much better than what he could get at an MMA board populated by a bunch of people who are jealous and pissed off at anyone with size. The first time he posted(old board) Freddy loved his routine. Today it's different. That's weird.

[Riemann]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Hmmm, odd. I sent him over here from another board because I knew that the training advice on this board would be much better than what he could get at an MMA board populated by a bunch of people who are jealous and pissed off at anyone with size. The first time he posted(old board) Freddy loved his routine. Today it's different. That's weird.

I think the push/pull split with his set and rep scheme is a pretty solid program. Just thinking about training like this puts him so far ahead of most beginners. I think when I first started training I benched and did curls four times a week. Maybe some leg presses whenever I felt like it, heh.

[Grizzly]

Yeah, I thought it was pretty good, too. I thought something might be wrong with the loading, but nothing irreparable. Also, maybe a push/pull/squat setup would work best.

[Poopwithme]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Yeah, I thought it was pretty good, too. I thought something might be wrong with the loading, but nothing irreparable. Also, maybe a push/pull/squat setup would work best.

Looks good to me..I don't see how anyone can look at a split without knowing the persons phyiscal condition and abilties/fitness level and recommend a split. I know what works best for me...I've tried different training methods recommended by all types of people, HIT, DFHT, german volume, etc// but I've found I get the best results from my own training program..I say do it for two months and see if you see any improvments if not change it up

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by Poopwithme

Looks good to me..I don't see how anyone can look at a split without knowing the persons phyiscal condition and abilties/fitness level and recommend a split.

Easy. There are exercises that you absolutely SHOULD be doing and there are exercises that are a complete waste of fucking time. There is, contrary to what many wish to espouse, a correct(or atleast most efficient) way to train. Programs that go something like mon-arms, tues-chest, wed-back and legs, thurs-arms, fri-chest are clearly flawed and, as such, can be advised against.

It's really simple. There is most certainly a right and wrong way to go about doing this. Thus, one can give advice without any knowledge of the items to you mention because they are irrelevant since there is a basic formula for correctness that should be followed regardless.

[Phreezer]

Working out 4 times a week, monday, tuesday, thursday and friday.

workout A (mon, thurs):
Bench Press 3x5
Squat 3x5
Push Press 3x5
Clean (originaly had Clean & Jerk) 3x5

Workout (tues, frid) B
Hang Clean 3x5
Deadlift 3x5
Chin-up 3x5
BB Bent Over Row 3x5

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Hmmm, odd. I sent him over here from another board because I knew that the training advice on this board would be much better than what he could get at an MMA board populated by a bunch of people who are jealous and pissed off at anyone with size. The first time he posted(old board) Freddy loved his routine. Today it's different. That's weird.

The problem I had was the volume and the order structure....You only do three working sets of Bench on Mon...and then do three working sets of squats???? Then you're...Like Oh ok, I'll hit some shoulders..and throw ins some cleans..

The volume is to low for someone who's trying to train for strength, and IMO I don't believe he should be putting His squat workouts with his bench, one of them will get cheated.... he's simply not going to have enough gas in the tank to give a good bench workout, and then turn around and give a good squat workout..... Here, lets break it down......So lets say hIs max bench is 350lbs raw (It's just a number bro, if it's too low my apologies) Then his five rep max is probably only about 295-315 . So if he warms up to his max 5 rep weight and does three sets of five he's pushing a total of 4,500lbs,,, and then bang he's done for chest...That's it for strength training in his arms and chest.

So then He goes into Squats..Warms up...Say his Max 1rep squat is 500lbs then his 5 rep max is probably 425-445...So he's then only doing a total of 6675lbs for legs...He does some push press which is good! to combine with Chest and tricep work..and some hang cleans..which I think go better with deadlifts because they hit my traps so hard....

So basicaly we've got a total of 4,500lbs for chest
and 6,675lbs for legs... Ok...Now here's an example of a typical chest workout for me...

Bench work :: 45xbazillion, 135x10, 185x5, 225x3, 275x3, 315x3, 375x3x5
5 board :: 315x3, 345x3, 375x3, 405x1, 425x1, 455x1
4 board :: 315x3, 335x3, 365x3, 385x3
Pulldowns :: 172.5x3, 187.5x3, 200x3, 225 5x3
PushPress :: 135x5 185x5 205x3 225x3

volume for bench totals 9445
Volume for 5 boards totals 4390
Volume for 4 boards totals 4200
-------------------------------
So total chest and tri volume = 18,035lbs

Compared to his of 4,500...If we both continue to train in this fashion who is going to get stronger quicker? Who is going to get bigger quicker?

Granted my poundages are a bit higher than what I estimated in the first example, but if you make them even you'll see that overall volume is still considerably more...Which is Critical for Maxamizing strength potenital...And his workout doesn't really call for a dynamic or deloading day..it's just the same workout, same exercise, and probably the same weight again...How long will it take to get stagnant on that?

And I'm not even completely advocating Westside here..Notice I did not mention banded or speed work once...IMO it's simply not a Good workout to try and squat and bench together in the same workout twice a week every week....Freddy and gavin and Hogg may disagree with me...They certainly know more than I do, but at this point, I can't look at his program, and say,,,yeah, that's a great program dude, keep at it and you'll realize your goals..because I honestly don't believe that he will, I believe that he's selling himself short, and setting himself up to become stagnant within weeks.

[Grizzly]

Definitely, I can agree. That's why I sent him over. I don't know exactly what seems wrong wtih it to me, but something just does. Let me try here.

First, let's set the set/reps at 4X5

Mon-

Squats
Bench
Push press

Tues- off

Weds-

Cleans
Deads
Rows
Chins

Thurs-

Squats
Bench or incline
Military

Sat-

Deads
hang clean
rows
chins

Certainly, there can be some work done on this, but it seems pretty good to me. A couple of the days are almost identical to something JS posted for me. The sets/reps are different, but there's definite similarities.

[Phreezer]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Definitely, I can agree. That's why I sent him over. I don't know exactly what seems wrong wtih it to me, but something just does. Let me try here.

First, let's set the set/reps at 4X5

Mon-

Squats
Bench
Push press

Tues- off

Weds-

Cleans
Deads
Rows
Chins

Thurs-

Squats
Bench or incline
Military

Sat-

Deads
hang clean
rows
chins

Certainly, there can be some work done on this, but it seems pretty good to me. A couple of the days are almost identical to something JS posted for me. The sets/reps are different, but there's definite similarities.

Well, if for whatever reason you have to have the squat and bench together, I think you should definatly be making some changes...

Say Mon: Bench
Pushpress
Overhead Dumbell extensions
Squat
Calves

WED:
Deads, Rows, Cleans, Chins (although I think lats should be trained with chest in a split like this since you use your lats so much to bench)

Fri:
Decline Dumbbell Press
Weighted dips
Military Press
Box Squat
Calves

Sun.

Romanian Deadlifts, Shruggs, Lat Pulldowns, Seated Rows

I think this needs to be tweaked as far as the rep scheme and % of 1rm from week to week....It can work, I'm sure,,,and If J.S. Says it will work, I'm sure it will, For me, I just don't see it as being the most effective way to go here...but just because I don't see it, doesn't mean that it isn't there...

I'm tired , and I'm going to bed now...

[Grizzly]

I guess it kind of comes down to your goals. A guy with comptetive aspirations would probably be better served with your program. A guy looking to get stronger and bigger might be better served my way.

I will say, though, that I would do cleans before deads. Cleans take too much damn energy. Of course, so do deads. JS has got me doing snatch pulls in sets of 2 working up into a max effort snatch grip deadlift. It's weird.

[Riemann]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

I will say, though, that I would do cleans before deads. Cleans take too much damn energy. Of course, so do deads. JS has got me doing snatch pulls in sets of 2 working up into a max effort snatch grip deadlift. It's weird.

Those Russian guys that Louie Simmons always quotes say that you should do explosive or speed-strength training before maximal strength training, so yeah...I think you're right about the cleans before deads.

[Freddy]

Its fine the way it is. Its very reminiscent of the 5x5 or JS's oldschool powerlifting program.

What I said last time is this:

Keep it exactly the way it is for the first 4-5 weeks. However, for weeks 6-10, only do workout A once a week, on Monday, and only do workout B once a week, on Thursday or Friday. Also, reduce the sets to 2 and the reps to 3. Thats it.

That makes it a solid dual factor program based off of compound lifts. Simple, yet very effective.

My way is NOT the only way to do it. But it will work, and it is fun.
It will certainly build a ton of functional strength, and make you a lot bigger. And faster. Remember, olympic lifts are "dynamic" by nature...so lifts like cleans accomplish a lot of the same things as speed box squats.

Anyway, I don't want to overcomplicate the program or insult anyone. Phreezer's WSB program is a nice looking program for a competitive powerlifter, but for a recreational strength training, this will do wonders.

[NightFire1]

I got a litle confused just now. I dunno what should I do now. Well, maybe I should get a litle rest and read it all over again.