Periodization with 5x5

[Iron_man]

Heya everyone. Nice to meet ya all.

I'm just finishing off my DFHT routine but I desperately want to get back to 5x5 for football. I'm thinking if I was to periodised 5x5 can I do something like this:-

mon: box squat, bench, row
wed: speed jump squat, military, dl, chin
fri: box squat, bench, row

REGULAR 1st 2 Weeks : pick a set weight, perform 5repsx5sets. All sets on all exercises are to NON FAILURE.

LOADING 2nd 2 Weeks : pick a set weight, perform 5repsx5sets. All exercises are to FAILURE. Increase weight if you can perform >22reps (23reps or more) total on each exercise (this will allow you to fail on the last 3 sets of each exercise)

DELOADING last 2 Weeks : only do mondays workout twice a week. For each exercise, choose a weight thats ~70% of the weights used in the loading phase

LOL, I don't know if this is right or not. Would this be a BASIC, SIMPLE periodisation for the 5x5 routine??

OR

box squat, bench, row
performed 3 times per week

(same as squat routine)
monday: 5 sets of five with a set weight to failure
wendsday: 5 sets of five with a weight that is 10-15% less than monday
friday: work up with sets of five, going for your best set of five on the last set

do the above for about 4-5 weeks, then drop volume and frequency to 3x3 twice per week, starting initially with the weight used in the 5x5 and increase the weight a little at a time each workout (similar to the squat routine). Do this for about 2-3 weeks then have a week off to rest and start all over again

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Iron_man

Heya everyone. Nice to meet ya all.

I did a 5x5 routine a while back but just did it hardcore to failure on all exercises week in, week out. I did get good strength gains but it plateued bad. I've learnt heaps about periodisation after that and now know it was just plain stupid what I did. I'm just finishing off my DFHT routine but I desperately want to get back to 5x5 for football. I'm thinking if I was to periodised 5x5 can I do something like this:-

mon: box squat, bench, row
wed: speed jump squat, military, dl, chin
fri: box squat, bench, row

REGULAR 1st 2 Weeks : pick a set weight, perform 5repsx5sets. All sets on all exercises are to NON FAILURE.

LOADING 2nd 2 Weeks : pick a set weight, perform 5repsx5sets. All exercises are to FAILURE. Increase weight if you can perform >22reps (23reps or more) total on each exercise (this will allow you to fail on the last 3 sets of each exercise)

DELOADING last 2 Weeks : only do mondays workout twice a week. For each exercise, choose a weight thats ~70% of the weights used in the loading phase

LOL, I don't know if this is right or not. Would this be a BASIC, SIMPLE periodisation for the 5x5 routine??

Why not just do it the way its supposed to be done?

[johnsmith182]

of course since im the one who introduced this to this board, i agree with freddy. now im sure there are other ways to make this work, probably even better ways lurking out there somewhere. but the way i described several years ago on the board has been tried on literally hundreds of lifters who i have trained, and it has evolved to what it is becasue over time i have found that this way works better than the many, many other variations i have tried.

what i would humbly suggest is that you give the whole cycle, around 8 weeks, a try, see how it works for you. at that time you might find that it works for you as well as it works for a lot of others, and like it just as it is, but if not, then i think that at that time you would be in a lot better position to make good solid changes to make it more specific to your particular needs than if you had never tried it as written.

i would like to make some general observations... i have used and coninue to use a variety of training methods with the lifters i train. almost every one of these methods were arrived at by first copying someone else, whether it be bill starr or louie simmons or a russian or bulgarian routine. now over the years i have changed most things and no longer do exactly what other coaches do in almost any situation. but i dont think id be doing things which are as effective if i hadnt taken the time to copy proven programs to start with. when something has worked really well for a lot of people, it gives you a good base to start with, something which you can then modify over time to make it better for your own situation. if you start right in with a program by changing major parts of it before you even use it, you never know if you left out the important parts.



QUOTE=Freddy]Why not just do it the way its supposed to be done?[/quote]

[Bob Smith]

To add to what JS said, I used to read the HST forum, and the question in this thread reminds me of about 50% of the questions over there. People that have never even done the original program (HST, or in this case 5x5) are changing things around to fit what their preconceved notions are as to what a program should look like. By the time they are done making "slight adjustments" the end program doesnt even remotely look like the original. Are they doing HST, no, definitely not. But then after a 6-8 week cycle of their version they wiull come back and say that HST didnt work. What a load of crap! They didnt do HST (or 5x5) to begin with.

Use the original program (HST or 5x5) exactly how it is written out for 1-2 full cycles making no changes. After that you will have personal experience with the program and be able to make informed adjustments. Before then, youre just guessing without even knowing how you respond to the real deal.

[Iron_man]

Originally Posted by johnsmith182

at one time or another i have written on this board about a variation using 5 sets on monday, 5 lighter sets on wednesday, and then working up to one max set on friday, my observations are that this is a little better maybe for beginners who are capable of making gains in a more steady manner, maybe every week. if you have been training for a limited time, you can do this without cycling or periodizing at all for quite a long time. although if you do it, i wouldnt do either the monday or wednesday workouts to failure, just get the volume in and do the friday sets to "test" yourself, trying a new weight each friday for a single set of 5 as long as you got the weight you used the week before for 5 reps.

the other program, which is basically an 8 week program, has for me worked better for more advanced lifters, who cant go up on a weekly basis and need a little more loading for a longer time and a little more taper to gain strength. if you cant go ;up every week, then id do the second program. if your still in a position where you can improve every week, id use the first. for instance, a lifter training year round and has been training for 2-3 years will usually use the 8 week cycle, a high school football player going in to a lifting program after teh football season where he hasnt lifted for 2-3 months, will usually do better on the first one with no overall plan, just a weekly 5 rep max on friday.

I see what you're getting at. Just that when I did a 5x5 routine a while back, I was doing a leg, push, pull 5x5 that was posted and used a lot over at muscletalk.co.uk. There wasnt much mention of periodising it, it was just "do everything to failure as hard as you can and try to up the weight if possible". I got VERY good strength gains as well as size, but I just plateued flat out. I tried to change exercise but.... zilch. I realised that by training hardcore day in, day out would give me limited gains. I just thought this 5x5 one would do the same. It would be EXTREMELY effective for a while, but will cause you to max out too much, that you'll plateau to a complete halt.
Alright, I'll try the program as it is. .
I'll post my progress 4 weeks from now and again 8 weeks from now. Sorry to trouble you guys, hehehe.