Training Forum: This is a discussion on questions about 5x5 within the Bodybuilding forums, part of the extensive steroid information at MESO-Rx; Hey bros, I'm starting the 5x5 workout up in the stickies, but I had a couple questions. First, am I ...
Hey bros, I'm starting the 5x5 workout up in the stickies, but I had a couple questions. First, am I solely supposed to do these exercises, or are these just the core exercises and I'm supposed to add in auxiliary exercises like arms, calves, and abs? Also, I was thinking of doing cleans instead of squats on Wednesdays and Inclines instead of bench on fridays. Anyways, let me know what you guys think.
subbing inclines for benches should be ok, but if your going to do cleans, i suspect you mean powercleans, id sub them for a back exercise, and probably cut the reps to 5 sets of 3. dont mess with the squats. if i were you, id try the program as written, and not add in anything for the first few weeks. its a lot harder than it looks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bal
Hey bros, I'm starting the 5x5 workout up in the stickies, but I had a couple questions. First, am I solely supposed to do these exercises, or are these just the core exercises and I'm supposed to add in auxiliary exercises like arms, calves, and abs? Also, I was thinking of doing cleans instead of squats on Wednesdays and Inclines instead of bench on fridays. Anyways, let me know what you guys think.
subbing inclines for benches should be ok, but if your going to do cleans, i suspect you mean powercleans, id sub them for a back exercise, and probably cut the reps to 5 sets of 3. dont mess with the squats. if i were you, id try the program as written, and not add in anything for the first few weeks. its a lot harder than it looks.
Thanks bro. Yeah, no kidding its hard... that's why I was asking cause after I'm done with those core exercises I want to go lie down in a fetal position instead of doing more auxiliary exercises on top of that.
I have used the 5x5 many times, and have since strayed. Age/wisdom however, has shifted my focus away from pure mass, back to sport performance. I'd like to go back to using the 5x5 for the strength conditioning portion of my program. I compete in volleyball, baketball, and baseball depending on the season.
-Can you give a comparison of the 3 day routine as referenced above, versus that of a 4 day, 2 way, heavy-light split. In what situation or under what circumstances would one be advantageous over the other? I have 10+ years of weight training and have a well developed base of strength.
- What split is preferred in the 4 day? Push-Pull or Upper-Lower? I fear Push-Pull due to the similarity of dead and squat. I am long limbed, and thus my deadlift is damn near a squat.
I have used the 5x5 many times, and have since strayed. Age/wisdom however, has shifted my focus away from pure mass, back to sport performance. I'd like to go back to using the 5x5 for the strength conditioning portion of my program. I compete in volleyball, baketball, and baseball depending on the season.
-Can you give a comparison of the 3 day routine as referenced above, versus that of a 4 day, 2 way, heavy-light split. In what situation or under what circumstances would one be advantageous over the other? I have 10+ years of weight training and have a well developed base of strength.
- What split is preferred in the 4 day? Push-Pull or Upper-Lower? I fear Push-Pull due to the similarity of dead and squat. I am long limbed, and thus my deadlift is damn near a squat.
Thanks for the input!
The 5x5 (or 8 week squat program) is the best program in the world. Always try to use it or a variation of it for at least part of the year.
when you get to a certain weight and workload, it is indeed tough to do it all on just 3 days... i think its really advantageous for beginners to do it on 3 days just to get in better shape, but at some point it is good to split it up, or at least go back and forth and switch to a split late in the cycle when the weights get really hard.
what i like to do is actually legs and back on one day, and shoulders, chest and and triceps on the other... sounds like a LOT more work on one day than another, and it is, and i believe this is good. all your training days should NOT be exactly the same stress level, you should have some hard days and some easy, and i think this accomplishes that goal.
if you do this, you can try just squatting two times a week, although i know that for some people three squat workouts work really well and they continue to add in light squats on one of the chest/shoulder days.
in general, what i would recomend if you do this is thye following
monday
heavy squat day, then something like powercleans or stiff leg deadlifts and then pullups
tuesday
heavy military press, heavy close grip bench press and then maybe something light for chest...
thursday
squats a bit lighter than monday, heavy deadlifts, heavy barbell rows, then some other back exercise, depending on what you need
friday
heavy bench press, lighter military press than tuesday or maybe DB militaries of some sort, some sort of nosebreakers or other tricep exercise.
or course some of the exercises i would really question the need to change, like the squats, militaries, benches, deadlifts, but others like the nosebreakers or pullups or closegrip benches could bd changed if you like other similar things.
i think a really good way to do this would be to do the 3 day a week program for a certain number of weeks, then switch to the 4 day split for a few weeks at the end when it really gets hard and you are having trouble getting it all done. this would let you keep going up in weights for a few extra weeks becasue of the lower frequency and less total work in each training session... then lower the weights again (but of course not totally back to the old levels) and start over again on the 3 day a week program.
a variation that i think i discussed in the post i wrote about the 5 by 5 training program and that you could use here for squats or for any other exercise you wanted to concentrate on would be to do 5 by 5 on one day then work to one max set of 5 on the second day... for instance if you really wanted to specialize on militaries you could start with militaries on tue and thur and on tue do 5 by 5 and on frir work to one top set of 3 or 5 reps... of course the same principle applies, when you first start the workouts with the top set of 3 or 5 start below your best set of that rep range, give yourself 2-3 weeks to work back to your old max and then pass it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girth
John, Freddy (or anyone):
I have used the 5x5 many times, and have since strayed. Age/wisdom however, has shifted my focus away from pure mass, back to sport performance. I'd like to go back to using the 5x5 for the strength conditioning portion of my program. I compete in volleyball, baketball, and baseball depending on the season.
-Can you give a comparison of the 3 day routine as referenced above, versus that of a 4 day, 2 way, heavy-light split. In what situation or under what circumstances would one be advantageous over the other? I have 10+ years of weight training and have a well developed base of strength.
- What split is preferred in the 4 day? Push-Pull or Upper-Lower? I fear Push-Pull due to the similarity of dead and squat. I am long limbed, and thus my deadlift is damn near a squat.
I apologize for the delay in responding. Many thanks gents. I respect all, but especially, the both of your opinions. It's good to see the effort you still put forth to explain things. I only hope people take a fraction of the time you took, to search for this information.
I only have one additional question. I like the split, as there is so much overlap with back and legs. However, why not have all your heavy lifts on one day? For example, the squat and dead are essentially the same movement. If you squat heavy on Monday, and then dead heavy on Thursday, won't you be negating the heavy-light principle?
Granted it would be easier to focus on 1 or 2 heavy lifts each day. But seeing as how nerves recover in 24-48 hours, but muscles take 4-7 days, won't you constantly be tearing the muscle down with the overlapping heavy lifts? Thus no supercompensation will occur outside of neural efficiency?
complete tissue remodeling from one session of weight training takes about 6 weeks. the statement that muscles recover in 4-7 days is not really accurate... you CAN benefit from further training sessions even if you are not fully recovered from the previous one.
E=Girth]I apologize for the delay in responding. Many thanks gents. I respect all, but especially, the both of your opinions. It's good to see the effort you still put forth to explain things. I only hope people take a fraction of the time you took, to search for this information.
I only have one additional question. I like the split, as there is so much overlap with back and legs. However, why not have all your heavy lifts on one day? For example, the squat and dead are essentially the same movement. If you squat heavy on Monday, and then dead heavy on Thursday, won't you be negating the heavy-light principle?
Granted it would be easier to focus on 1 or 2 heavy lifts each day. But seeing as how nerves recover in 24-48 hours, but muscles take 4-7 days, won't you constantly be tearing the muscle down with the overlapping heavy lifts? Thus no supercompensation will occur outside of neural efficiency?[/quote]
And so it shall be done.....Thanks, I'll be posting the results of the above in a few months. May they be confused for statements of praise and testimonials of the unbiased, unpaid infomercial actor.
Everything is going well so far. The biggest thing I've noticed, is that my CNS is recovered. That, I'm sure is due to switching from a HIT style ("Doggcrapp") training, as well as the lowered loads I'm using to ramp up to my previous bests. I hope this CNS recovery continues once I get up into the new personal bests.
Speaking of the ramping up, is there a recommended % of previous best, that one should start their next cycle out at? Or is it just 5-10 lb. jumps based on the weight used for the lift in question?
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