Rest Intervals???

[osmedicus]

To begin, I'd like to voice my appreciation for this forum and to thank all those who have taken the time to share their knowledge.

My question has to do with the rest intervals in between working sets. I've been at the 5x5 for some time now and have always wondered what the "ideal" rest period is. I've searched on this site and found responses ranging from 3-5 minutes for the heavy compound movements down to 1-2 minutes for the accessory movements. I've also read that those more interested in hypertrophy would decrease rest time compared to the longer rest periods preferred by those seeking pure strength. In my experience, if I use longer rest periods I am able to use more weight. On the flip side, if I were to decrease the rest periods I'd have to also decrease the weight. Which do you think offers the most benefits? Also, there are those that claim the CNS basically "checks out" after a given period of intense exercise. I've heard those who claim that no longer than 1hr to 1hr 15 minutes should be spent in the gym and the time beyond that is somewhat counter productive. Is this theory valid? If so, should the rest intervals be tailored to complete all the reps/sets of the day's workout to fit into the "window" that the CNS is still in the game? I apologize if my questions seem trivial but I have been wondering this for a long time. Thank you in advance.

[Ronnie]

One minute between each set.Thats all you need.

[BILLYGRINGO]

All theories work

depending on your goals

bulking I like to wait 2 minutes so i can use the xtra weight

tone i like 1 minute / less weight more reps

your body is your best guage do what works for you, but maybe think about changing up your routine if you have been doing 5x5's for YEARS

my 2 cents dont mean shit

ranger huh i did 6 years in the 50th

[jasthace]

If I'm going to stop for more than a minute to catch my breath I get onto a cardio machine and walk it off.

[Ramstein II]

You got a lot going on in that question. First, this is a hotly debated topic, so opinions will vary.

Your question involves two consideration: set rest intervals and training session length.

Session length: yes, after 45 minutes or so your body will have a stress reaction and drop T levels and increase cortisol levels. If you're using anabolic steroids, this isn't much of a concern. If you're currently not using anabolic steroids, then you should have some concern over this. My best gains whle training naturally have been on shortish workouts--30-40 minutes. So I'm in favor of keeping them short. Guard your T levels when you train naturally. And realize that works for a 280 lbs bodybuilder using 2.5g a week isn't good for you if you're not that guy.

Should you squeeze your workout into less than an hour and shorten rest periods just for that reason? Maybe, maybe not. What are your goals and workout frequency and volume? If your work schedule means you can only hit the gym 2 days a week, then go for the long workout and sip a protein / carb drink at about the 45 minute mark and have plent after the workout. That's the best you can do.

Now, onto set rest intervals. Think about what you're trying to accomplish in the muscle. Strength training does two things: 1. trains the CNS to contract the muscle "harder" (use more fibers per contraction) and 2. cause some hypertrophy--especially in the sarcomere. According the foremost authorities on strength and power, such as Vladimir Zatsiorsky, strength performance is mainly neurological. So this warrants long rest periods. Each set is a "training" stimulus--like practice. e.g. each set of squat is a practice of that motion.

In hypertrophy training your goal is to fire and breakdown as many fibers as possible in a session without overtraining. To do that you have to EXHAUST fibers-which means firing fibers. So you should use short rest periods. Say your biceps has 100 fibers (to be simple here). Say the maximum fibers you can fire and breakdown in a session before you overtrain is theoretically 40. On set one you exhaust 20. You rest one minute and 10 recover. Now you do another set and exhaust another 20, now you've fired a total of 30. You rest one minute and 10 recover. Now you do another set and fire a total of 20. Now you've fired 40 and you stop. So each inadequate recovery period keeps some fibers exhausted and unrecovered which opens the door to incorporate other fibers.

This also illustrates the importance of achieving a mind/muscle connection. I think that's why incorporating some periods of strength training into a bodybuilding program is good. The more fibers you can fire per set the better, since you are literally against the clock inthe gym and each set causes fatigue to the CNS which can lead to burnout or overtraining. So, the more efficient the workout the better. I think that some can develop such a strong connection that very low volume protocols work very well for them. See Dorian Yates for example.

Let me also add this. The other part of hypertrophy training is exhaustion of energy resources (glycogen, creatine phosphate) to promote "supercompensation" and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. So, short rets intervals makes sense here two. It als promotes GH release by raising lactic acid levels.

By the way. Intensifying techniques like drop sets, pre-exhaustion, and supersets help accomplish this fiber exhaustion/recruitment in less time. Training to failure and forced reps do this too but is not for everybody and has its drawbacks on your CNS.

[jasthace]

But then again Louie Simmons owner of the strongest gym in America or any where {Westside Barbell in Ohio} Westside Barbell®"Often Imitated but never duplicated" ,has squatted over 800 pounds and benched over 600 pounds, at the age of 51!
He is the only man over 50 to accomplish such a feat.
Westside Barbell have 22 people who have squatted over 800 pounds. Seven of members bench press over 600 pounds, three of which are world record holders. One guy does 657 at a bodyweight of 220. Another does 688 at 242, and another still can bench 728 at 275.

Louie advocates speed of sets with a minimum rest periods between sets,he says this is the best way to stimulate the CNS to achieve strength gains.

This is what HE says:

I'm a speed/strength expert. It's all about speed. If you're fast, I can make you strong. I believe in working within the relationships between force and velocity, and you have to train at 60% of your one-rep maximum to do that. If you work heavier than 60%, the bar will move too slowly to build maximum force.
Things like slow repetitions and negatives just make you sore! They will increase size, but they do nothing to increase strength, so we don't do them! For our bench, as an example, we do eight sets of three reps at 60% of the max, with 30 seconds rest between sets.

We at Westside don't concern ourselves with muscle growth, but I will say this: the average guy who trains here gains about 40 pounds in two years!
I have trained five women, all of whom have squatted or deadlifted over 500 pounds! Anyone can benefit from this because I don't work on the muscle, I work on the central nervous system. That's the key.

Westside Barbell®"Often Imitated but never duplicated"
Westside Barbell®"Often Imitated but never duplicated"

[osmedicus]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I am fortunate enough to have a job which allows me 1.5-2 hours every day to work out so "time" is not a problem for me. I am no longer with the rangers, my time in service is finished and am now a member of the "civilian" working community. Anyway, I'm a 5x5'er and have been pondering the "rest period" question for a long time. My workouts typically last around 1.5 hours but that also includes the warm up time spent on the elyptical and the first warm up sets for the beginning lift. (I assume the "clock" begins at your first working set?) I still think I'm waiting too long in between sets and perhaps I need to drop the weight a bit to allow for a quicker recovery. (Or perhaps I'm just a pussy?) I'm in the deloading phase right now so I'll use Wednesday's workout as an example primarily because it's the day I dead lift. I blow through the squat portion because it's a reduced weight squat and while deloading I'm only doing 3x3. The shoulder presses were done with an approximate 1-2 minute rest period and then on to the deads. I pulled 495 3x3 (a personal best 3x3 for me by the way) and they were tough as hell. I imagine that I probably rested a good 3-4 minutes in between each set and was absolutely spent after the third set. From there I went on to do weighted chins followed by a single set of 21's. It probably took me 5 minutes or more to move from deads to chins, I was tired and exhausted but basically I was lacking the "motivation" to move on and finish the workout. Like I said, perhaps I'm just a pussy and need to grow a pair but I'm seriously wondering if it's due to my CNS starting to check out and basically telling my body that's it's break time. Throughout my career I've put my body through some rigorous shit, experiences that I don't want to live through again so when I'm saying that I'm exhausted I honestly mean it. I really don't want to reduce the weight because I'm on a fairly linear progression and am happy with the results but there's always the question in the back of my mind if I should change something that may produce even better results. I'm going for a combination of strength and size, without focusing specifically on one or the other.
Another issue that I face and I'll probably get flamed for this is that I'm an advocate of balance so I also integrate a cardio session in on Tues and Thurs (the days between lifting days). I know this affects my recovery and obviously translates into perhaps more fatigue in between sets but although I am interested in size and strength I also want to be able to continue to hunt, hike, ski, and be active without being winded. I did not do cardio today which I normally would have but my body was telling me that yesterday's DL'ing session was pretty tough and that it would rather just take the day off. As you can see, I'm somewhat confused yet I'm also somewhat perpetuating my problem (if it is really a problem) by not fully resting on the "rest days". Anyway, thanks again for all the advice and I'm going to try and tweak a few things and see what results I get. Peace to you all my brothers.

O