Shoulder routine.......need some advice

[BlackNGoldRules]

I just wanted to see what you guys think of my shoulder workout. I've been doing overhead dumbell presses, Behind neck presses, front laterals, side laterals, and shoulder shrugs. About 3 sets of each. Does this sound OK as a routine for the shoulders? Not enough? Too much? I'd appreciate some advice and maybe some ideas on what you guys do for shoulders. Thanks!

[JonTest]

Originally Posted by BlackNGoldRules

I just wanted to see what you guys think of my shoulder workout. I've been doing overhead dumbell presses, Behind neck presses, front laterals, side laterals, and shoulder shrugs. About 3 sets of each. Does this sound OK as a routine for the shoulders? Not enough? Too much? I'd appreciate some advice and maybe some ideas on what you guys do for shoulders. Thanks!

you should definitely throw in some upright rows.....they are the shit.

[Hogg]

Fuck the shrugs if you deadlift, power clean, or do upright rows. If you are not doing those exercises, fuck the shrugs and do those exercises instead.

Also, why do you do front laterals if you are doing 2 overhead presses? Also, what is the point of dumbbell presses and behind the neck? Why not one or the other or alternate them every 4 weeks.

Shoulders are simple. You have to push weight over your head to build a good anterior. If you never push weight over your head, you will never build the deltoid thickness characteristic of a bodybuilder.

You need good deltoid width which comes from side laterals or upright rows.

You need good traps. If you deadlift, clean, or do upright rows, you should have some traps. If you do upright rows, you should still be doing some form of pull.

You will have good rear deltoids if you row heavy. If you do not row heavy, you should throw in bent laterals....but the better solution is to change your back routine and row heavy because without rowing heavy, you will never build good lat thickness.

[ren]

Originally Posted by Hogg

Fuck the shrugs if you deadlift, power clean, or do upright rows. If you are not doing those exercises, fuck the shrugs and do those exercises instead.

Also, why do you do front laterals if you are doing 2 overhead presses? Also, what is the point of dumbbell presses and behind the neck? Why not one or the other or alternate them every 4 weeks.

Shoulders are simple. You have to push weight over your head to build a good anterior. If you never push weight over your head, you will never build the deltoid thickness characteristic of a bodybuilder.

You need good deltoid width which comes from side laterals or upright rows.

You need good traps. If you deadlift, clean, or do upright rows, you should have some traps. If you do upright rows, you should still be doing some form of pull.

You will have good rear deltoids if you row heavy. If you do not row heavy, you should throw in bent laterals....but the better solution is to change your back routine and row heavy because without rowing heavy, you will never build good lat thickness.

ive always wondered about the behind the neck presses..i figured if you did these you were just begging for injury...does it actually hit a different shoulder head then say DB presses?

ren

[Hogg]

Not necessarily true, if the movement feels comfortable and there are no impingements or major range of motion issues, its fine. They are thought to cause more medial than a front press.

[ren]

Originally Posted by Hogg

Not necessarily true, if the movement feels comfortable and there are no impingements or major range of motion issues, its fine. They are thought to cause more medial than a front press.

and one more question...while doing dumbell press someone a while back had told me i should do a few sets palms forward ..and a few sets palms in...is there a difference?...i definitely notice that i have to lower the weight when utilizing the palms in method

ren

[Hogg]

I dunno how palms in factors toward the deltoid but I believe it has an effect on the triceps....doesnt it? I might have to look at a kinesiology book on this one.

[BlackNGoldRules]

Thanks for the advice guys. So basically I should just try doing overhead presses (dumbbell or behind the neck), upright rows, and maybe some side laterals for my shoulder workout? Anything else added to that would be a waste then? I deadlift on my back day. Should I start deadlifting on my shoulder day instead? I've actually been doing shrugs with my shoulder workouts while deadlifting in my back workouts. Is that overkill doing both? Deadlifting alone is good enough for hitting the traps then? Sorry for so many questions, just want to make sure I do everything right and not overdo it or underdo it on anything. Thanks!

[jbrand]

One thing that I notice about lateral raises is that people generally use too much weight and crappy form, and as a result the medial deltoid fibers are only recruited to a small extent. One thing I found useful is Jerry Telle's (Tellekinetics) suggestion of form, it's a little awkward at first but I can guarentee that you will be hurting. Medial deltoids also consist of primary slow twitch fibers, so it's a frequent misconception to use excessively high weights for 2-6RM. The form, which as I noted above, also sacrifices form a great degree. You can find info regarding Telle's method (without the book) by searching through testosterone.net for Tellekinetics

[ren]

Originally Posted by Hogg

I dunno how palms in factors toward the deltoid but I believe it has an effect on the triceps....doesnt it? I might have to look at a kinesiology book on this one.

thanks hogg

ren

[Hogg]

Originally Posted by BlackNGoldRules

Thanks for the advice guys. So basically I should just try doing overhead presses (dumbbell or behind the neck), upright rows, and maybe some side laterals for my shoulder workout? Anything else added to that would be a waste then? I deadlift on my back day. Should I start deadlifting on my shoulder day instead? I've actually been doing shrugs with my shoulder workouts while deadlifting in my back workouts. Is that overkill doing both? Deadlifting alone is good enough for hitting the traps then? Sorry for so many questions, just want to make sure I do everything right and not overdo it or underdo it on anything. Thanks!

Preface - Anytime Ren.

If you do deadlifts on back day, then drop the shrugs. If you deadlift and do upright rows, that is more than enough for your traps. Shrugs are unnecessary.