NorAndrosteDERM Substitute?

[jtomalley]

I was looking for Nor-AndrosteDERM, NOT for bodybuilding purposes -- but it's been discontinued and now I'm at a loss...

I'm female, 40 years old. I suffer from weight loss problems, heavy periods, lethargy, muscle weakness and sleep problems. I'm stuck at 155-160 lbs and it WILL NOT budge, no matter how I work out or adjust my diet. I also have low libido and no longer have orgasms like I used to. When I do (rarely) climax, it's very weak and nothing like it was 5 years ago.

I've been to a uro-gynecologist as well as an endocrinologist, who have determined that my testosterone levels are low, and my estrogen levels are high. All of my other endocrine systems are normal -- thyroid function, adrenaline, etc. Even my cholesterol is right on target. My diet is balanced and very healthy. I exercise vigorously 3-4 times a week for 1-2 hours, including cardio, weight training and yoga. But I'm stuck at 155-160 and I'm five-foot-five with a belly that looks like I drink a keg of beer every day.

However a straight testosterone "booster" has MAJOR unwanted androgenic properties (as well as estrogen-boosting issues) that are problematic. After reading Dr. Karlis Uillis, MD's report on Androgen's & women (see http://www.thehormoneshop.com/testosteroneandwomen.htm) as well as asking my endocrinologist about it, it was determined that NorAndrosteDERM had just the right amount of anabolic properties and a very weak androgenic effect -- to theoretically help my lethargy, weight and muscle problems and libido difficulties.

We spoke at length about having a compounding pharmacist create the cream/gel, however that is quite cost-prohibitive, as my insurance pharmacy benefits leave a LOT to be desired.

Any suggestions for a substitute or a place I can go where it's still available? I cannot afford to have it compounded, and I prefer a transdermal product.

-Julie

[Weatherlite]

I can say this much...my wife had the exact same problems and symptoms as you (with several others thrown in but unrelated). To make a long story short she ended up getting compounded T cream. She takes a VERY low dose (isn't even what most "high tech" docs would consider a replacement dose) and that helped her enormously! Her E2 went down to normal levels, T came into the normal range, libido returned, orgasms were much improved, her weight started to come down....it goes on and on.

Now it may not be the T doing all of this. The T allowed her endocrine system to function properly because for some reason she was nor making her own T....and the body was trying to compensate by making extra E2. By adding in that T it evened out which allowed the body to start functioning normally again.

As an alternative, you may want to look into DHEA. I know many women use it to enhance libido and feel better overall because it is a precursor to Testosterone (in women only) but the body will only convert the amount needed. So, if you take in 100mg that doesn't mea all of it will be converted. The body will only convert the amount it needs so you won't necessarily overdo it.

BTW, some do not respond to DHEA. DHEA requires an enzyme to convert it to T. If your body is lacking that enzyme you won't convert it. In that case you may want to consider compounded T cream. If this is the case you may want to do a lot more research on Testosterone to help with your fears. Yes it does have androgenic properties. However, you won't necessarily be worse off if you take it. Let's say, for example, that your body normally produced 67 pg/ml and you're now at 10 pg/ml. So, you start taking T cream and after careful measuring and testing your T levels are back at a healthy 67 pg/ml. You have the exact same amount of Testosterone in your blood as you had when you were young and healthy. How is that going to give you male characteristics? Did that level make you manly when you were younger? It won't now either. The only way it will do that is if you use too much of it....and you'll notice quickly due to the hair growth and raspy voice...at which point you can stop taking it until things return to normal and then start again with a lower dose.

And one final thing about my wife...she was getting very wiry hairs on her neck and chin before T therapy. Now that she's on it the hairs have gotten finer and lighter. So, too much estrogen can have similar effects as too much testosterone.

Good luck!

[jtomalley]

Thank you so much for confirming what my Endo said and what I KNOW is going on im my body!

Question -- when your wife had the T cream compunded, was it costly? Did your insurance cover it? Also -- what kind of doctor prescribed that (or did she go to the pharmacist directly)? I'm just trying to work with my insurance company, here.

I did try DHEA for several months -- I wanted to give it a good college try, but in the end, my back and shoulders broke out in acne, and my body apparently metabolized it into estrogen because my periods starting coming every 14-17 days... It didn't have any effect on my libido at all, except maybe make it worse because I was on my period all the time!

I am going to go back to my Endo and see if he will prescribe the ultra-low dose T cream, although I'm still rather curious about NOR-testosterone. From what I read it has less androgenic effects (although they are there) than testosterone, but a higher anabolic effect.

I'm a little worried about my voice getting lower because it's ALREADY really, really low naturally. I'm a voiceover artist, and I make my living by talking. If my voice gets any deeper it could have an adverse affect on my income.

[Weatherlite]

Can't tell ya anything more on Nor-T. Sorry.

As for the cost of the T cream, it's really cheap. Our insurance did cover it but I know a few folks who have bought it themselves (men on TRT) and for an amount that COULD last you a year cost about $50. My wife's particular jar would have cost $43 and at the rate she's taking it it WILL last over a year!

Boy, with all of your "woman" problems I sure do hope you get things fixed. Have you been checked for PCOS or endometriosis?

To answer your question, my wife had it prescribed by a regular doc who practiced in a women's health clinic. No endo required. You may want to read this thread for some more backgound on that and a little bit of her history. It may give you something to chew on and consider bringing up to your doc.

http://www.sculptedbyiron.com/forum/...ad.php?t=15264

Ok, here's a couple more to read for some info.
http://www.sculptedbyiron.com/forum/...ead.php?t=8825
http://www.sculptedbyiron.com/forum/...ad.php?t=13374
http://www.sculptedbyiron.com/forum/...ad.php?t=15278


If your T IS low right now bringing it back to a normal level won't cause your voice to change. If your T gets too high then your voice will start to change. The first signs are a slight raspiness. Many women find that they can stop taking the T at the first sign and there is no permanent effect. I wouldn't worry though if you and your doc work closely together and monitor the dosing and effective blood levels.

Good luck!!